Israel/Palestine Conflict 101

OnyxCougar · 03-24-2004, 09:54 AM

I have looked and cannot find a website that contains a non-biased account of how the middle-east (specifically Isreal and Palestine) got to this point.

I'm talking about the source of the problem. Since most of the biblical cities and events happened there, I'm guessing it's religious in nature.

Can anyone give me the NON-BIASED Isreal/Palestine conflict 101 course? It's ok if you cut and paste from somewhere, and cite your source.

I guess I'm looking for the "Dummy's Guide to the Middle East Conflict".

**mumbles** Where's Dave when you need him... oh well.. he'd probably just call me a retard anyway....

Troubleshooter · 03-24-2004, 10:08 AM

I don't know what anyone else is going to say, but...

We don't belong there. It's two groups arguing over land that their respective invisible man tells them is theirs.

The issue may seem more complicated than that, but it's not.

jaguar · 03-24-2004, 10:16 AM

Good luck finding an unbiased 101. I remember in 2002 when things were really hot we had a speaker from the Jewish Lobby and the week after a speaker come who the the aussie rep for the PA. I never never heard such disparate descriptions of the same 2 events. Utter chaos. By the end of both q/a sessions people were close to fists, insane for a political interest group.

vsp · 03-24-2004, 10:30 AM

Here's a quick attempt, which is open to revision and criticism:

The British had a mandate from the League of Nations in the twenties to administer over the territory of Palestine, formerly Ottoman Turkish Empire property, in order to create a national home for the Jews.

In 1948, a UN resolution split Palestine into two territories, one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. The Arabs revolted against this, losing the war, and with it their claim to/control over the territory they had been allotted (most of which ended in Israel and Jordan). Many Arabs ended up relocating to the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

In 1967, the Six Day War saw Egypt attack Israel, followed by hostilities between Israel and Jordan. When the smoke cleared, Israel had control of much of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and over time Jewish settlements were built in these "occupied" areas.

"Occupied" is in quotes because that's what much of the fuss is about, as to whether the settlers are actually entitled to be there and to whom that land really belongs. Are the Arabs entitled to the 1948-era Palestinian state, the West Bank and Gaza Strip, or no state at all? Other nations have ventured into these hostile waters tentatively, if at all.

The Oslo agreements reduced the hostilities to a dull roar for a while in the mid-90's, but the rise of Ariel Sharon in Israel stirred things up again, as both Sharon and Arafat have shown little hesitation towards poking each other with a stick.

(My source for the above: <a href="http://www.mideastweb.org/mpalestine.htm">mideastweb.org</a>, after a quick Google search. I make no claims as to its bias or authenticity.)

Okay, NOW throw Judaism vs. Islam into the mix...

Radar · 03-24-2004, 10:30 AM

Here's how it happened....

Several empires going back to the Egyptians have owned the land in dispute. During the thousands of years when the Egyptian, Roman, Ottoman, and British empires owned that land, there were some nomadic people living on it. In essense they were squatters who had no claim on the land. Then in 1947 the British (the rightful owners) divided the land in half and generiously gave some to the squatters so they would finally own something, and some to the Jews so each could make their own country. Actually the British earlier gave part of the land historically known as Israel, to create Jordan.

The land was divided and the Jews who had recently been nearly eliminated moved in only to find they were being victimized again by thier neighbors who turned out to be terrorists. The Palestinians began their attacks 3 days after the Jews moved in and haven't stopped since.

In 1967 the surrounding arab nations launched an unprovoked attack against Israel and got their asses kicked. As the winner of the war, Israel is entitled to take all of the lands and property of those who lost (to the victor goes the spoils), but they only took a small piece as a "buffer zone" against their cowardly, scumbag terrorists who wanted nothing but to murder Jews.

Ever since then, the Palestinian cowards have targeted women and children because they lack the backbone to face men. They murder people and then cry when justice comes for them and claim to be victims. Every single attack against the Palestinians has been in retaliation for Palestinian attacks or in defense. In 1996, the Palestinians were offered all of the land they lost when they attacked in 1967 and a chance to become a recognized country if they could just not kill Jews for a week. They couldn't do it. The Palestinians do not want peace. In fact they don't want anything but to murder the people who employ them, allow them to vote, let them live in their country, etc.

Israel has been far far too kind and gentle with the Palestinians. No other country would be as patient or kind-hearted. America would never allow Mexicans to blow women and children up in shopping malls in southern California because the land used to belong to them. We'd blow the shit out of 'em.

If I were in charge of Israel, there would be no more fighting within 1 year. I'd tell the Palestinians if there were even one more attack whether it was a rock thrown at an Israeli soldier or a suicide bomb, I'd give each and every one of them 1 week to evacuate that country and to move elsewhere or to be destroyed. And then I'd roll the tanks, jets, etc. into that area and take all of the land and be done with it. I'd tell all the surrounding Arab nations if they got involved, I'd take their shit too.

vsp · 03-24-2004, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Can anyone give me the NON-BIASED Isreal/Palestine conflict 101 course?

Quote:

Originally posted by Radar
The Palestinians do not want peace. In fact they don't want anything but to murder the people who employ them, allow them to vote, let them live in their country, etc.

Yeah, that's what she asked for, Radar. Thanks!

jaguar · 03-24-2004, 10:44 AM

And thus, radar has spectacularly demonstrated while you'll never get a truly unbiased view. On the upside Radar will never have control over anything larger than a few hectares of farmland. Even if unlike Radar's frothing irrational ramblings a version appears to be unbiased, the chances are it's chosen to omit certain facts.

vsp hasn't done a bad job, it's too long since I studied it to fill most of the gaps but I will add these two facts.

Sharon was in charge of multiple operations that resulted in many deaths in Lebanese refugee camps, I believe in the latter half of the 70s, in the process almost killing arafat twice, the hatred between the two goes back a long way. Over these events Sharon was indited for war crimes in Belgium.

The second is that the currant uprising caused mainly by Sharon's visiting of holy sites. It is the 3rd such uprising.

It is also worth noting that the area that is no Isreal is not the only one that was proposed at the time. There is still a signifigant Jewish colony somewhere in africa (I forget) that was from an earlier attempt (that year or a few earlier) to create a jewish state.

Radar · 03-24-2004, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Yeah, that's what she asked for, Radar. Thanks!

Hey, based on their actions, it's the unbiased truth.

Quote:

On the upside Radar will never have control over anything larger than a few hectares of farmland.

I could, and should, become the president of the United States. I'd be a far more level headed, intelligent, leader than any in the past 100 years and America would be far better off with me than with any of them.

Quote:

Even if unlike Radar's frothing irrational ramblings a version appears to be unbiased, the chances are it's chosen to omit certain facts.

First I wasn't "rambling", and second no part of what I said is irrational. Everything I've said is true.

Beestie · 03-24-2004, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Here's how it happened....

Thanks for clearing that up, Ariel.

Beestie · 03-24-2004, 11:04 AM

Quote:

I could, and should, become the president of the United States. I'd be a far more level headed, intelligent, leader than any in the past 100 years and America would be far better off with me than with any of them.

I see butterfly nets.

vsp · 03-24-2004, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beestie
I see butterfly nets.

Leave it to Radar to make LaRouche-ites seem RATIONAL.

Troubleshooter · 03-24-2004, 11:31 AM

You slay me Radar, you really do.

Have you ever considered taking your show on the road?

Radar · 03-24-2004, 11:46 AM

Only the road to the whitehouse.

Happy Monkey · 03-24-2004, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radar
I could, and should, become the president of the United States. I'd be a far more level headed, intelligent, leader than any in the past 100 years and America would be far better off with me than with any of them.

I'm pretty sure that number should be less than 100. But it's 3 at the very least.

Undertoad · 03-24-2004, 12:13 PM

To center jag's lefty entries a little bit:

- The current violence was declared by the Palestinians before Sharon's election as PM or visit to any holy sites.

- Aside from Sharon's culpability, being charged a war criminal in Belgium is not very meaningful because Belgian rules permit the charge too easily.

03-24-2004, 09:54 AM	#1
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	Israel/Palestine Conflict 101 I have looked and cannot find a website that contains a non-biased account of how the middle-east (specifically Isreal and Palestine) got to this point. I'm talking about the source of the problem. Since most of the biblical cities and events happened there, I'm guessing it's religious in nature. Can anyone give me the NON-BIASED Isreal/Palestine conflict 101 course? It's ok if you cut and paste from somewhere, and cite your source. I guess I'm looking for the "Dummy's Guide to the Middle East Conflict". mumbles Where's Dave when you need him... oh well.. he'd probably just call me a retard anyway....

03-24-2004, 10:08 AM	#2
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	I don't know what anyone else is going to say, but... We don't belong there. It's two groups arguing over land that their respective invisible man tells them is theirs. The issue may seem more complicated than that, but it's not. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

03-24-2004, 10:16 AM	#3
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Good luck finding an unbiased 101. I remember in 2002 when things were really hot we had a speaker from the Jewish Lobby and the week after a speaker come who the the aussie rep for the PA. I never never heard such disparate descriptions of the same 2 events. Utter chaos. By the end of both q/a sessions people were close to fists, insane for a political interest group. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-24-2004, 10:30 AM	#4
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	Here's a quick attempt, which is open to revision and criticism: The British had a mandate from the League of Nations in the twenties to administer over the territory of Palestine, formerly Ottoman Turkish Empire property, in order to create a national home for the Jews. In 1948, a UN resolution split Palestine into two territories, one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. The Arabs revolted against this, losing the war, and with it their claim to/control over the territory they had been allotted (most of which ended in Israel and Jordan). Many Arabs ended up relocating to the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. In 1967, the Six Day War saw Egypt attack Israel, followed by hostilities between Israel and Jordan. When the smoke cleared, Israel had control of much of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and over time Jewish settlements were built in these "occupied" areas. "Occupied" is in quotes because that's what much of the fuss is about, as to whether the settlers are actually entitled to be there and to whom that land really belongs. Are the Arabs entitled to the 1948-era Palestinian state, the West Bank and Gaza Strip, or no state at all? Other nations have ventured into these hostile waters tentatively, if at all. The Oslo agreements reduced the hostilities to a dull roar for a while in the mid-90's, but the rise of Ariel Sharon in Israel stirred things up again, as both Sharon and Arafat have shown little hesitation towards poking each other with a stick. (My source for the above: <a href="http://www.mideastweb.org/mpalestine.htm">mideastweb.org</a>, after a quick Google search. I make no claims as to its bias or authenticity.) Okay, NOW throw Judaism vs. Islam into the mix... Last edited by vsp; 03-24-2004 at 10:34 AM.

03-24-2004, 10:30 AM	#5
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Here's how it happened.... Several empires going back to the Egyptians have owned the land in dispute. During the thousands of years when the Egyptian, Roman, Ottoman, and British empires owned that land, there were some nomadic people living on it. In essense they were squatters who had no claim on the land. Then in 1947 the British (the rightful owners) divided the land in half and generiously gave some to the squatters so they would finally own something, and some to the Jews so each could make their own country. Actually the British earlier gave part of the land historically known as Israel, to create Jordan. The land was divided and the Jews who had recently been nearly eliminated moved in only to find they were being victimized again by thier neighbors who turned out to be terrorists. The Palestinians began their attacks 3 days after the Jews moved in and haven't stopped since. In 1967 the surrounding arab nations launched an unprovoked attack against Israel and got their asses kicked. As the winner of the war, Israel is entitled to take all of the lands and property of those who lost (to the victor goes the spoils), but they only took a small piece as a "buffer zone" against their cowardly, scumbag terrorists who wanted nothing but to murder Jews. Ever since then, the Palestinian cowards have targeted women and children because they lack the backbone to face men. They murder people and then cry when justice comes for them and claim to be victims. Every single attack against the Palestinians has been in retaliation for Palestinian attacks or in defense. In 1996, the Palestinians were offered all of the land they lost when they attacked in 1967 and a chance to become a recognized country if they could just not kill Jews for a week. They couldn't do it. The Palestinians do not want peace. In fact they don't want anything but to murder the people who employ them, allow them to vote, let them live in their country, etc. Israel has been far far too kind and gentle with the Palestinians. No other country would be as patient or kind-hearted. America would never allow Mexicans to blow women and children up in shopping malls in southern California because the land used to belong to them. We'd blow the shit out of 'em. If I were in charge of Israel, there would be no more fighting within 1 year. I'd tell the Palestinians if there were even one more attack whether it was a rock thrown at an Israeli soldier or a suicide bomb, I'd give each and every one of them 1 week to evacuate that country and to move elsewhere or to be destroyed. And then I'd roll the tanks, jets, etc. into that area and take all of the land and be done with it. I'd tell all the surrounding Arab nations if they got involved, I'd take their shit too. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

03-24-2004, 10:44 AM	#7
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	And thus, radar has spectacularly demonstrated while you'll never get a truly unbiased view. On the upside Radar will never have control over anything larger than a few hectares of farmland. Even if unlike Radar's frothing irrational ramblings a version appears to be unbiased, the chances are it's chosen to omit certain facts. vsp hasn't done a bad job, it's too long since I studied it to fill most of the gaps but I will add these two facts. Sharon was in charge of multiple operations that resulted in many deaths in Lebanese refugee camps, I believe in the latter half of the 70s, in the process almost killing arafat twice, the hatred between the two goes back a long way. Over these events Sharon was indited for war crimes in Belgium. The second is that the currant uprising caused mainly by Sharon's visiting of holy sites. It is the 3rd such uprising. It is also worth noting that the area that is no Isreal is not the only one that was proposed at the time. There is still a signifigant Jewish colony somewhere in africa (I forget) that was from an earlier attempt (that year or a few earlier) to create a jewish state. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-24-2004, 11:31 AM	#12
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	You slay me Radar, you really do. Have you ever considered taking your show on the road? __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

03-24-2004, 11:46 AM	#13
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Only the road to the whitehouse. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

03-24-2004, 12:13 PM	#15
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	To center jag's lefty entries a little bit: - The current violence was declared by the Palestinians before Sharon's election as PM or visit to any holy sites. - Aside from Sharon's culpability, being charged a war criminal in Belgium is not very meaningful because Belgian rules permit the charge too easily.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)