planes of reality

lumberjim · 12-06-2003, 02:09 PM

we think we're big. we think the earth is big. we think the atom is small. we think the electron is really small.

what if that's all just perspective

compare the atom to the solar system

nucleus = sun
electron = planet

molecule to galaxy

atom = star system
group of atoms = molecule
group of star sytems = galaxy

group of galaxies = universe
group of molecules = life form, object, compound

what if we are all quarks living onthe surface of the electron called earth? that orbits the neutron called the sun? which exists in the molecule called our galaxy? which is a part of the universe that is actually our view of the apple sitting on some enormous alien's teacher's desk?

talk about small

Griff · 12-06-2003, 05:23 PM

Over-packed the bong a little tonight, didn't we?

juju · 12-06-2003, 05:29 PM

I thought about this when I was a kid, and it's always blown my mind. You have to take into account the fact that the laws of physics are different on a molecular level than they are on a universal level, though. Still, that doesn't rule out the idea.

lumberjim · 12-06-2003, 05:31 PM

yeah, imagine all of the lives, hopes, dreams, love affairs, flame wars, and people leaving "cellar"s in your toenail!

wolf · 12-06-2003, 05:35 PM

Is that anthing like that footfungus drug commerical with the guys partying under your toenails?

The microuniverse has long been a staple of science/speculative fiction storywriting. The best stuff, though, comes from Robert L. Forward - Dragon's Egg and Starquake.

Slartibartfast · 12-06-2003, 05:59 PM

Subatomic particles are just to fuzzy! If the earth was
an electron, then it would not just be in one location in its
orbit, it would exists as a probability field throughout the whole
of its orbit. It would actually 'teleport' all around, first being
over here, then being WAY over there without never having
occupied space between the two places.

The whole particle/wave stuff is about as mind-fuckingly
wierd that I need another beer.

Now you want big, one theory is that if the universe keeps
expanding and does not end in a Big Crunch, regular matter
would slowwwely decay away- I mean a google years from now,
not just Billions and Billions!

Particles of matter would be seperated by distances larger than the universe the size it is today.

And then... these particles would interact to form atoms of some
bizzare new matter each atom of which would be larger than
the universe the size it is today.

Then our whole universe could then be just an atom
in some psuedo-AOL installation psuedo-disk that will be thrown out and landfilled for all eternity.

________

The universe is not just stranger than we know,
its stranger than we can imagine!

insoluble · 12-06-2003, 06:05 PM

So where do the venerable poop molecules fit into your universe?

Slartibartfast · 12-06-2003, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by insoluble
So where do the venerable poop molecules fit into your universe?

Black holes are the universe's poop-chutes. And they stink so much
you don't want to go anywhere near one of them.

warch · 12-09-2003, 03:19 PM

Boil that dust speck! Boil that dust speck!

We're here! We're here! We're here!

Pie · 12-09-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lumberjim
what if we are all quarks living onthe surface of the electron called earth?

(Pie reaches really far back to her quantum physics classes)
Electrons are leptons, and are therefore not made up of quarks, iirc.

Hadrons (baryons and mesons) are made up of quarks. Mesons are made up of quark/antiquark pairs, baryons (protons, neutrons, etc) are made up of triplets of quarks whos charges sum to an integer value.

Analogy breaks down a little.

- Pie, physics major waaaay back when...

PS: Here's a good site with some of these particles and subparticles defined.

Slartibartfast · 12-09-2003, 03:42 PM

And the only way to really understand particle physics is to have another beer! (just don't drink and derive (sorry, I know, old joke, I just couldn't help myself))

lumberjim · 12-09-2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pie

(Pie reaches really far back to her quantum physics classes)
Electrons are leptons, and are therefore not made up of quarks, iirc.

Hadrons (baryons and mesons) are made up of quarks. Mesons are made up of quark/antiquark pairs, baryons (protons, neutrons, etc) are made up of triplets of quarks whos charges sum to an integer value.

Analogy breaks down a little.

- Pie, physics major waaaay back when...

PS: Here's a good site with some of these particles and subparticles defined.

:sigh: there's nothing like a little quantum physics to burst a young dreamer's bubble. thanks, pie. :sigh:

Pie · 12-09-2003, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lumberjim
:sigh: there's nothing like a little quantum physics to burst a young dreamer's bubble. thanks, pie. :sigh:

Sorry to bring you back down to earth with a thump.

To (partially) make up for it, here's an article that blew my mind.

I wanted to be a cosmologist, once. Then I discovered it was tough to make a living in that field. Then I discovered I wasn't smart enough by a long shot.

- Pie

lumberjim · 12-09-2003, 04:18 PM

actually, i was just breaking balls, pie....i didn't mean to convey what i posted as a literal comparison. more of a metaphor. the details of components in this example are somewhat maleable. The point of it was that the behavior of the compared components are similar(central structures with orbiting parts grouped by a force and seen as a whole or its individual parts), and if we look at our selves from really really far away(by our standards) our univers may appear to be a mundane household object to someone with far larger perspective and observatory equipment. conversely, waht we "think" we know about quantum physics and microscopic particles could very well be limited by OUR observatory equipment and perspective.

The idea still stands. there COULD be layer upon layer (billions and billions ,sagan would say) of planes of reality or perspective. whether literally translated to known sub-particles and super structures, or metaphorically compared.

lumberjim · 12-09-2003, 04:30 PM

Quote:

To (partially) make up for it, here's an article that blew my mind.

love that. we were just talking about that today at work......

what if stacyv's husband HAD sank in that ship he was on? Or, more appropriately, what if we lived in the plane where that DID happen? i'd feel like a jerk, for one......

12-06-2003, 02:09 PM	#1
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	planes of reality we think we're big. we think the earth is big. we think the atom is small. we think the electron is really small. what if that's all just perspective compare the atom to the solar system nucleus = sun electron = planet molecule to galaxy atom = star system group of atoms = molecule group of star sytems = galaxy group of galaxies = universe group of molecules = life form, object, compound what if we are all quarks living onthe surface of the electron called earth? that orbits the neutron called the sun? which exists in the molecule called our galaxy? which is a part of the universe that is actually our view of the apple sitting on some enormous alien's teacher's desk? talk about small __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

12-06-2003, 05:23 PM	#2
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Over-packed the bong a little tonight, didn't we? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

12-06-2003, 05:31 PM	#4
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	yeah, imagine all of the lives, hopes, dreams, love affairs, flame wars, and people leaving "cellar"s in your toenail! __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

12-06-2003, 05:35 PM	#5
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Is that anthing like that footfungus drug commerical with the guys partying under your toenails? The microuniverse has long been a staple of science/speculative fiction storywriting. The best stuff, though, comes from Robert L. Forward - Dragon's Egg and Starquake. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

12-06-2003, 05:59 PM	#6
Slartibartfast \|-0-\| <-0-> \|-0-\| Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 516	Imagine an atom bigger than the present day universe!! Subatomic particles are just to fuzzy! If the earth was an electron, then it would not just be in one location in its orbit, it would exists as a probability field throughout the whole of its orbit. It would actually 'teleport' all around, first being over here, then being WAY over there without never having occupied space between the two places. The whole particle/wave stuff is about as mind-fuckingly wierd that I need another beer. Now you want big, one theory is that if the universe keeps expanding and does not end in a Big Crunch, regular matter would slowwwely decay away- I mean a google years from now, not just Billions and Billions! Particles of matter would be seperated by distances larger than the universe the size it is today. And then... these particles would interact to form atoms of some bizzare new matter each atom of which would be larger than the universe the size it is today. Then our whole universe could then be just an atom in some psuedo-AOL installation psuedo-disk that will be thrown out and landfilled for all eternity. ________ The universe is not just stranger than we know, its stranger than we can imagine!

12-06-2003, 05:29 PM	#3
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	I thought about this when I was a kid, and it's always blown my mind. You have to take into account the fact that the laws of physics are different on a molecular level than they are on a universal level, though. Still, that doesn't rule out the idea.

12-06-2003, 06:05 PM	#7
insoluble developmentally disabled rear end headwear Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: syracuse, ny Posts: 207	So where do the venerable poop molecules fit into your universe?

12-09-2003, 03:19 PM	#9
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Boil that dust speck! Boil that dust speck! We're here! We're here! We're here!

12-09-2003, 03:42 PM	#11
Slartibartfast \|-0-\| <-0-> \|-0-\| Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 516	And the only way to really understand particle physics is to have another beer! (just don't drink and derive (sorry, I know, old joke, I just couldn't help myself))

12-09-2003, 04:18 PM	#14
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	actually, i was just breaking balls, pie....i didn't mean to convey what i posted as a literal comparison. more of a metaphor. the details of components in this example are somewhat maleable. The point of it was that the behavior of the compared components are similar(central structures with orbiting parts grouped by a force and seen as a whole or its individual parts), and if we look at our selves from really really far away(by our standards) our univers may appear to be a mundane household object to someone with far larger perspective and observatory equipment. conversely, waht we "think" we know about quantum physics and microscopic particles could very well be limited by OUR observatory equipment and perspective. The idea still stands. there COULD be layer upon layer (billions and billions ,sagan would say) of planes of reality or perspective. whether literally translated to known sub-particles and super structures, or metaphorically compared. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

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