To disclose or not?

elSicomoro · 10-20-2002, 02:18 AM

As I've mentioned previously, Rho is in end-stage renal failure. Dialysis takes care of the problem for now, but she really needs a new kidney.

Her home dialysis allows her to live a relatively normal life. She can work full-time, but requires a day or two off each month for doctors' appointments. Overall, she is relatively healthy, and has only gotten sick once in the past 4 months (a nasty infection that sidelined her for 2 days...catheter infections are fairly common in dialysis patients).

Unfortunately, her condition appears to be a huge negative on her side right now. She had been working full-time as a temp for a company in University City for almost a year, and they had been incredibly understanding with her health issue...so it seemed. However, the company announced in mid-January that they were going to be letting temps go by the summer. Rho was let go in late January...she was the only temp to be let go at the time. Her work record had been impressive, and she was well-regarded by both the company and her agency. No reason was given other than the fact that all the temps were going to be let go in the near future.

From the end of January until mid-June, she was out of work. She went through a nasty period where she was in and out of the hospital several times, but things improved when she transferred to a new dialysis center. At the time, she was still on hemodialysis, so she could only work 28 or so hours a week maximum. Her agency could find her no work, and most temp agencies don't deal with part-time work orders...or at least those that Rho could work. So, she sat on the unemployment dole for most of that period.

In late May, Rho started peritoneal dialysis. This new treatment allowed her to do dialysis every night while she slept, and it allowed her to work full-time hours again. In mid-June, she started working for a company through her temp agency called Penn Maid (a large dairy company that supplies many East Coast grocery stores with dairy products). The company was made aware of her health condition, and they seemed to have no problem with it. The job paid well, it was supposed to be a temp-to-perm job, and their dairy is located less than 5 minutes from our apartment.

So, Rho worked along at Penn Maid, was doing well, and really enjoyed her job. She put in her resume with Penn Maid, just in case the agency hadn't provided a copy of it. Things seemed to be looking up. She missed a couple of days in July due to her infection, but the company and the agency were cool with it.

Three weeks ago, on a Friday afternoon, her boss told her that she was working her last day. The company's reason: They hired a permanent employee to fill the position.

Needless to say, Rho was incredibly upset, and the agency was surprised as well. Rho is again on unemployment, though it will run out right before Xmas if her agency does not find her another job.

There is really no way to prove anything here, but I do suspect that Rho has lost her last two jobs due to her medical condition. She's trying to stay positive, but it's hard for her to do. At this point, she doesn't feel that she'll ever get a full-time job again, at least until she receives a kidney transplant. She has applied for disability, but there is no guarantee that she'll be approved for it. And quite honestly, she doesn't like the idea of collecting disability...she really wants to work.

At this point, I almost think it's better for her NOT to tell anyone about her condition. After all, it's not really anybody's business, and by law, employers cannot discriminate on the basis of one's disability.

But of course, if Rho were to get a job, then start getting sick again, her employer could fire her for missing too many days. And to me, it just seems unethical for her not to disclose the information.

Opinions? Thoughts?

perth · 10-20-2002, 11:03 AM

ive always felt its none of the company's fucking business why youre out. when i call in i say "hey its james. i wont be in today" and leave it at that whether im sick or its just too damn nice to be inside. i dont see it as unethical at all to keep quiet. especially given the crap shes put up with in other companies. the two of you have better things to do with your time that worry about what her employer thinks, so dont tell em.

~james

Undertoad · 10-20-2002, 11:36 AM

I only say this because I know you guys would never take *unfair* advantage of it, but:

The Americans with Disabilities act prohibits employers from dismissing Rho on the basis of her disability.

This guide explains what is basically covered and how to get more info from a local office.

My opinion is that the ADA is an ugly scar on the employee/employer relationship, and frankly I doubt it does anything good for disabled people. Sure, the intent of the law is to protect the disabled and to make sure they get equal opportunity and fair treatment.

But in the real world, things never work as the lawmakers say. Instead of just dropping Rho they may try to build a file against her, or avoid hiring her entirely. When the govt attempts to improve things for people via the law, it's the people who can understand the law (ie, lawyers) and USE the law that benefit... which is not generally the employee. Unless the employee has been to a year of law school, or enjoys reading case law in their spare time...

BUT, that said, if people are being dicks about it for no good reason, then I say use whatever you've got. If this really is just a case of ignorant prejudice, then fuck 'em, they deserve it.

Legally, then, your best bet is to NOT disclose at first (it's illegal for them to ask), and then disclose one minute after hiring.

10-20-2002, 12:14 PM

Except, then, that it creates a relationship of distrust.

I'd say your best bet is to not even mention it until you need to, i.e. need to take a week off because of it.

warch · 10-21-2002, 11:46 AM

Quote:

My opinion is that the ADA is an ugly scar on the employee/employer relationship, and frankly I doubt it does anything good for disabled people. Sure, the intent of the law is to protect the disabled and to make sure they get equal opportunity and fair treatment.

I completely, totally disagree. Like the employee/employer relationship was ever un-scarred!(utopia?) ADA does offer protection and recourse against unjust treatment. It helps you build a case for yourself. It gives you some hand. Know your rights and demand them. I dont think the act is over your head or using it offers an "unfair" advantage. But then I am an employee, not an employer. I wish you the best.

Tobiasly · 10-22-2002, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by perth
ive always felt its none of the company's fucking business why youre out. when i call in i say "hey its james. i wont be in today" and leave it at that whether im sick or its just too damn nice to be inside.

Are you using vacation days or sick days in this case? If your employer is fine with you using vacation days with practically no notice, that's fine.

If you're using sick days when you're not sick, you're stealing from your company, and it sure is their fucking business.

Of course, that's rather unrelated to Syc's question anyhoo.. I'd recommend against telling them up front. If she gets fired again, ask them for documented reasons. I'd consider taking them to court if they can't come up with it.

10-22-2002, 09:09 AM

That's one thing I dig about SAIC. Since I'm never sick, I basically get 16 days of vacation each year (plus 9 holidays, which I can defer and then use as vacation). Now, I don't get any sick leave - it's all bundled into "comprehensive leave", which, as I said, is great if you're never sick. If you're really really sick, there's Disability Sick Leave, for when you're so sick you couldn't possibly work (i.e., are in the hospital for a week with pneumonia, etc).

So basically I get 5 weeks of vacation each year, which is pretty swell. I like working holidays because there's never anyone here and traffic is usually not too bad. I can take off on practically no notice because I don't have to deal with the customer.

That having been said, I always give plenty of notice (unless an emergency comes up, in which case, I write a quick email or go talk to one of my bosses). I think it helps foster a trusting relationship, which is important between an employer and the employee.

perth · 10-22-2002, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tobiasly

Are you using vacation days or sick days in this case? If your employer is fine with you using vacation days with practically no notice, that's fine.

If you're using sick days when you're not sick, you're stealing from your company, and it sure is their fucking business.

in my company, vacation days and sick days are one in the same.

i understand its a different story if your employer sets aside specific sick days. ive simply never been in an environment like that. i get 15 days off a year for vacation/sick days. theyre my days, and ive earned them. its no ones business but my own what i do with them. only once have i ever been asked to proide an excuse and that was after i was out unexpectedly for 3 days after having my wisdom teeth yanked. in that case it was reasonable for them to ask and i was prepared with a drs note.

but even if i did have to provide an excuse every time i was out, i would give them only the vaguest reason possible. thats more a reflection on my opinion of my employer than anything else.

~james

10-22-2002, 10:05 AM

That's a sucky situation. I know at least one of my bosses doesn't give a shit, but a few of them really do care (about me and what's going on in my life). So while they never ask, I generally tell why I'm out, and they always appreciate knowing (and generally tell me "hey, get out of here then. Hope everything gets better and I'll see you tomorrow."

elSicomoro · 11-21-2002, 10:49 PM

Well, Rho's first job interview since losing her last job is tomorrow morning. I don't know what she's going to tell them...I believe it's under the guise of "doctors appointments" (as almost all her appointments are scheduled through next spring). We'll see...I hope they (the interview is through my old temp agency) can find her something. Her unemployment runs out in 2 weeks.

View Poll Results: Should Rho continue to disclose her illness to employers?
Yes	2	33.33%
No	4	66.67%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

10-20-2002, 02:18 AM	#1
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	To disclose or not? As I've mentioned previously, Rho is in end-stage renal failure. Dialysis takes care of the problem for now, but she really needs a new kidney. Her home dialysis allows her to live a relatively normal life. She can work full-time, but requires a day or two off each month for doctors' appointments. Overall, she is relatively healthy, and has only gotten sick once in the past 4 months (a nasty infection that sidelined her for 2 days...catheter infections are fairly common in dialysis patients). Unfortunately, her condition appears to be a huge negative on her side right now. She had been working full-time as a temp for a company in University City for almost a year, and they had been incredibly understanding with her health issue...so it seemed. However, the company announced in mid-January that they were going to be letting temps go by the summer. Rho was let go in late January...she was the only temp to be let go at the time. Her work record had been impressive, and she was well-regarded by both the company and her agency. No reason was given other than the fact that all the temps were going to be let go in the near future. From the end of January until mid-June, she was out of work. She went through a nasty period where she was in and out of the hospital several times, but things improved when she transferred to a new dialysis center. At the time, she was still on hemodialysis, so she could only work 28 or so hours a week maximum. Her agency could find her no work, and most temp agencies don't deal with part-time work orders...or at least those that Rho could work. So, she sat on the unemployment dole for most of that period. In late May, Rho started peritoneal dialysis. This new treatment allowed her to do dialysis every night while she slept, and it allowed her to work full-time hours again. In mid-June, she started working for a company through her temp agency called Penn Maid (a large dairy company that supplies many East Coast grocery stores with dairy products). The company was made aware of her health condition, and they seemed to have no problem with it. The job paid well, it was supposed to be a temp-to-perm job, and their dairy is located less than 5 minutes from our apartment. So, Rho worked along at Penn Maid, was doing well, and really enjoyed her job. She put in her resume with Penn Maid, just in case the agency hadn't provided a copy of it. Things seemed to be looking up. She missed a couple of days in July due to her infection, but the company and the agency were cool with it. Three weeks ago, on a Friday afternoon, her boss told her that she was working her last day. The company's reason: They hired a permanent employee to fill the position. Needless to say, Rho was incredibly upset, and the agency was surprised as well. Rho is again on unemployment, though it will run out right before Xmas if her agency does not find her another job. There is really no way to prove anything here, but I do suspect that Rho has lost her last two jobs due to her medical condition. She's trying to stay positive, but it's hard for her to do. At this point, she doesn't feel that she'll ever get a full-time job again, at least until she receives a kidney transplant. She has applied for disability, but there is no guarantee that she'll be approved for it. And quite honestly, she doesn't like the idea of collecting disability...she really wants to work. At this point, I almost think it's better for her NOT to tell anyone about her condition. After all, it's not really anybody's business, and by law, employers cannot discriminate on the basis of one's disability. But of course, if Rho were to get a job, then start getting sick again, her employer could fire her for missing too many days. And to me, it just seems unethical for her not to disclose the information. Opinions? Thoughts? Last edited by elSicomoro; 10-20-2002 at 02:25 AM.

10-20-2002, 11:03 AM	#2
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	ive always felt its none of the company's fucking business why youre out. when i call in i say "hey its james. i wont be in today" and leave it at that whether im sick or its just too damn nice to be inside. i dont see it as unethical at all to keep quiet. especially given the crap shes put up with in other companies. the two of you have better things to do with your time that worry about what her employer thinks, so dont tell em. ~james

10-20-2002, 11:36 AM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I only say this because I know you guys would never take unfair advantage of it, but: The Americans with Disabilities act prohibits employers from dismissing Rho on the basis of her disability. This guide explains what is basically covered and how to get more info from a local office. My opinion is that the ADA is an ugly scar on the employee/employer relationship, and frankly I doubt it does anything good for disabled people. Sure, the intent of the law is to protect the disabled and to make sure they get equal opportunity and fair treatment. But in the real world, things never work as the lawmakers say. Instead of just dropping Rho they may try to build a file against her, or avoid hiring her entirely. When the govt attempts to improve things for people via the law, it's the people who can understand the law (ie, lawyers) and USE the law that benefit... which is not generally the employee. Unless the employee has been to a year of law school, or enjoys reading case law in their spare time... BUT, that said, if people are being dicks about it for no good reason, then I say use whatever you've got. If this really is just a case of ignorant prejudice, then fuck 'em, they deserve it. Legally, then, your best bet is to NOT disclose at first (it's illegal for them to ask), and then disclose one minute after hiring.

10-20-2002, 12:14 PM	#4
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Except, then, that it creates a relationship of distrust. I'd say your best bet is to not even mention it until you need to, i.e. need to take a week off because of it.

10-22-2002, 09:09 AM	#7
dave Guest Posts: n/a	That's one thing I dig about SAIC. Since I'm never sick, I basically get 16 days of vacation each year (plus 9 holidays, which I can defer and then use as vacation). Now, I don't get any sick leave - it's all bundled into "comprehensive leave", which, as I said, is great if you're never sick. If you're really really sick, there's Disability Sick Leave, for when you're so sick you couldn't possibly work (i.e., are in the hospital for a week with pneumonia, etc). So basically I get 5 weeks of vacation each year, which is pretty swell. I like working holidays because there's never anyone here and traffic is usually not too bad. I can take off on practically no notice because I don't have to deal with the customer. That having been said, I always give plenty of notice (unless an emergency comes up, in which case, I write a quick email or go talk to one of my bosses). I think it helps foster a trusting relationship, which is important between an employer and the employee.

10-22-2002, 10:05 AM	#9
dave Guest Posts: n/a	That's a sucky situation. I know at least one of my bosses doesn't give a shit, but a few of them really do care (about me and what's going on in my life). So while they never ask, I generally tell why I'm out, and they always appreciate knowing (and generally tell me "hey, get out of here then. Hope everything gets better and I'll see you tomorrow."

11-21-2002, 10:49 PM	#10
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Well, Rho's first job interview since losing her last job is tomorrow morning. I don't know what she's going to tell them...I believe it's under the guise of "doctors appointments" (as almost all her appointments are scheduled through next spring). We'll see...I hope they (the interview is through my old temp agency) can find her something. Her unemployment runs out in 2 weeks.

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