Rice Acknowledges a Reality

[tw]

From the NY Times of 16 Jun 2008 is an indication that George Jr's administration is finally deviating from their extremist position and finally confronting a reality that undermined the Oslo Accords eight years ago.

Rice Says Houses Hurt Mideast Talks
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Sunday that thousands of housing units that Israel is building on captured land were harming peace talks with the Palestinians. She also said she could not understand why Israel was still blocking three Fulbright grantees from leaving Gaza.

... Ms. Rice was more explicit than usual in asserting that the construction was reducing confidence in the talks. ...

Referring to the construction of which Israel considers Jerusalem neighborhoods but which much of the world considers illegal settlements, Ms. Rice said, "I do believe, and the United States believes, that the actions and the announcements that are taking place are indeed having a negative effect on the atmosphere for the negotiation - and that is not what we want."

She stressed that any such building would not be considered permanent by the United States ...

Jimmy Cater also noted this long ago and was roundly criticized for it. The Taba negotiations in 2002 were a last ditch attempt to save the Oslo Accords - negotiated without the US. Since then, Isrealis under the extremist Sharon began a program to all but cut the Palestinians off from what should be their capital - West Jerusalem. See Har Homa as a typical example of that occupation. During Taba, Clinton had defined the maximum annexation of the West Bank at 6%. Palestinians were willing to concede 3.1%. Peace was possible had time been sufficient and extremists kept from governments. It was the closest both sides came to an agreement. But time ran out.

During the Egyptian peace settlement, all Israeli settlements were removed which angered right wing extremist zionists. Even though a complete withdrawal from the West Bank is necessary for long term peace, it just is not possible with so many hard core Israeli extremists having remembered their insult in the Sinai.

Israel is building new settlements as fast as possible in the West Bank. Even Rice acknowledges that this action - once tacitly approved of by the George Jr administration - is probably the greatest impediment to peace. So finally even the George Jr administration (at least parts of it) are conceding to reality (as they also conceded with N Korea after Chinese pressure forced them to accept reality and the original Carter negotiated solution). After nearly eight years, some finally recognize a mistake.

[deadbeater]

They finally acknowledged a mistake, a first from the Administration.

[DanaC]

Anti-semite! :P

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

Jimmy Cater also noted this long ago and was roundly criticized for it.

Does anyone really care what Jimmy Carter thinks?

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Does anyone really care what Jimmy Carter thinks?

Moreso than you. Jimmy Carter does things. You simply attack others. Which makes a good man? Did I dumb down that question enough for you?

[classicman]

I'm sure he'll go down in the annals of history as one of our greatest presidents.

I haven't attacked you. I repeatedly asked you to back up your claim, which you still have not done. I must say though, your continued attempts at avoidance and deflection are rather telling.

[glatt]

classicman, what's your real name? If you insist on calling tw by a name that he chooses not to use publicly on these boards, why don't you tell all of us your real name?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[classicman]

Good point, I apologize and edited the post.

[HungLikeJesus]

I thought a lot of people call tw a name he chooses not to use...

[glatt]

It was really when classic used a first and last name the other day that it bugged me.

[Radar]

How is it a mistake to build houses on your own land? They won the land in a war that others started without provocation. By all rights, they could have taken ALL of the land, but they chose to be generous and only take a small part of it. And now you want to criticize them for building homes on their own honestly acquired land?

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Good point, I apologize and edited the post.

You have finally admitted to my point. And apologized. A significant improvement over what has been happening (has changed) in the Cellar: posts based on disparagement rather than facts for the topic.

[glatt]

[tw]

Originally Posted by Radar

How is it a mistake to build houses on your own land? They won the land in a war that others started without provocation.

Using that reasoning, then Israelis should have never and would have never made peace with Egypt.

Principles that made possible an Israeli / Egyptian peace settlement should apply to the West Bank. The greatest impediment to that solution are extremist zionists who have sworn to never let happen again what happened in the Sinai to create peace.

Once both sided conceded to the wants and needs of the other side, then peace came closest to occuring: Taba in 2002. What Rice has just conceded is what made Taba possible and what was a greatest impediment to a Taba peace settlement.

Taba almost happened without American participation. In 2002, negotiators on both side recognized that the American government was no longer an honest broker. Amazing are how far both sides conceded in the interest of peace. And then Ariel Sharon came into power.

[Radar]

Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I agree. In fact I think this principle applies to those who would give up their land for peace. If you surrender your land to those who threaten you, it means they will do it again and again and again until you have no land to give up.

Israel has already been EXTREMELY generous with their neighbors who want them dead. Israel has given them land, power, food, blankets, etc. Israel is the only democracy in the middle-east and the only nuclear power.

Only one side is preventing peace in the middle-east, and that is the side that wants to murder Jews. If they leave Israeli Jews alone, and stop blowing up Jewish women and children, there can be peace. If they don't, or they demand land for peace, it's better to have no peace. Israel will win either way.

And for the record, the closest peace talks ever came to actual peace was in 1996 when Israel offered to return all land won in 1967 and offered to help the Palestinian territory become its own country if they could simply stop killing Jews for 1 week. They couldn't do it. Actually, they WOULDN'T do it because they care more about killing Jews than they do about peace.