Women only

monster · 01-16-2008, 10:28 PM

I'm on the board of a 501c(3) non-profit swim club. We offer both learn-to-swim and competitive programs from toddlers up to USA national championships and including adults with severe learning difficultes en route.

Recently, we have had an influx of muslim families joining the club -which is awesome -we are in a culturally diverse area, but this "demographic" hasn't been "proportionally represented" until now.

One of the moms has approached us and asked if we could offer an extra, female-only program for the older girls.
We would love to, if we can find pool time and coaches at that time, but where do we stand on the sexual discrimination front with this? Should we/must we also offer a boys only program?

legal/philosophical/every type of non-bigoted input welcome. thanks.

Cloud · 01-16-2008, 10:30 PM

good question. does the facility where you swim have a policy? I.e., if it's a public pool, or university pool, you may have to consult them or follow their policies.

Aliantha · 01-16-2008, 10:32 PM

you probably would have to offer both boys and girls only I suspect. Are the parents able to help out in order to free up other people's time? I think it would have to be a give and take situation if the club were to consider it. If someone wants something 'extra' then they have to contribute something extra.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-16-2008, 10:49 PM

What's the point if they don't have women only competitions they can go to?

monster · 01-16-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

What's the point if they don't have women only competitions they can go to?

We are a learn-to-swim program too. And swimming is fun if you do it well. I'm a convert and I don;t compete.

monster · 01-16-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

you probably would have to offer both boys and girls only I suspect. Are the parents able to help out in order to free up other people's time? I think it would have to be a give and take situation if the club were to consider it. If someone wants something 'extra' then they have to contribute something extra.

We are planning to suggest that we would need a parent with the appropriate knowledge as to what was required on the board. Of course that wouldn't necessarily be their only board responsinility.....

ZenGum · 01-17-2008, 08:25 AM

Here's a few precedents from Down Under to consider, that I came across in my academic philosophising days.

Sex discrimination is illegal, unless you get a specific permit from the relevant minister. Fernwood Female Fitness Centre are a gym network for women only. They managed to get a permit from the minister to reject all males on grounds of sex/gender not fitting their business model.
While discrimination is generally illegal, you can get around it if you can make a good case. At least in Australia. There is a gay bar in Sydney that has done the same thing and is officially and legally gay only.

In Melbourne there is a group of well organized hippie nudists who have a weekly swim meet at a public pool, on a weekday evening when the pool would usually be closed. They cover the cost of opening it for their exclusive use. Something like this may well be possible for your group.

There is also a new invention called the burqini, a swimsuit designed to meet at least moderate Muslim rules - neck-to-ankle coverage, super modest (and I bet it prevents sunburn and skin cancer too!). This might help some of the less extreme Muslims but I believe that the strictest ones forbid men and women ever to bathe within sight of the opposite sex.

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Sorry, was I allowed to post in a thread marked "Women only"? I've been having doubts about myself ever since I posted in the handbag thread.

LJ · 01-17-2008, 08:32 AM

Iron my shirt, bitch.

Flint · 01-17-2008, 08:40 AM

LJ is totally a girl.

ZenGum · 01-17-2008, 08:41 AM

[ runs away and cries ... "if you don't know why I'm upset then I'm certainly not going to tell you!"... ]

Well, that wasn't as bad as what you could have said I suppose. Nevertheless, :p to you sir!

monster · 01-17-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud

good question. does the facility where you swim have a policy? I.e., if it's a public pool, or university pool, you may have to consult them or follow their policies.

Oooh sorry, I missed this last night. It's a high school pool. I think we're pretty much OK to do what we want as long as we pay them and it's legal, but I will check next time I take the payroll in. thanks

lumberjim · 01-17-2008, 10:24 AM

DanaC · 01-18-2008, 05:47 AM

We have had similar considerations in our authority regarding girls only and boys only youth nights at local community centres and women only language classes. I would suggest getting further advice from your local authority as to what requirements/legal restrictions there are. On the whole in the UK the attitude seems to be that gender specific events/classes are acceptable where they can be shown to be of benefit. So, if it can be shown that girls/women are likely to be excluded from an activity if the activity is only available in a mixed gender setting then it's usually acceptable to provide a gender specific alternative. The business model argument also seems to apply here as we have female only driving schools, insurance companies and fitness clubs. It's also acceptable (in fact legaly obligated) to separate the sexes in most sports. In any sport where contact is intrinsic such as footballe girls and boys can only play together until the age of (I think) 11.

Cicero · 01-19-2008, 04:37 PM

I still don't know why the class separation is necessary?

monster · 01-19-2008, 07:29 PM

what class separation are you referring to, cic?

01-16-2008, 10:28 PM	#1
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Women only I'm on the board of a 501c(3) non-profit swim club. We offer both learn-to-swim and competitive programs from toddlers up to USA national championships and including adults with severe learning difficultes en route. Recently, we have had an influx of muslim families joining the club -which is awesome -we are in a culturally diverse area, but this "demographic" hasn't been "proportionally represented" until now. One of the moms has approached us and asked if we could offer an extra, female-only program for the older girls. We would love to, if we can find pool time and coaches at that time, but where do we stand on the sexual discrimination front with this? Should we/must we also offer a boys only program? legal/philosophical/every type of non-bigoted input welcome. thanks. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-16-2008, 10:30 PM	#2
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	good question. does the facility where you swim have a policy? I.e., if it's a public pool, or university pool, you may have to consult them or follow their policies. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

01-16-2008, 10:32 PM	#3
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	you probably would have to offer both boys and girls only I suspect. Are the parents able to help out in order to free up other people's time? I think it would have to be a give and take situation if the club were to consider it. If someone wants something 'extra' then they have to contribute something extra. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

01-16-2008, 10:49 PM	#4
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	What's the point if they don't have women only competitions they can go to? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-17-2008, 08:25 AM	#7
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Here's a few precedents from Down Under to consider, that I came across in my academic philosophising days. Sex discrimination is illegal, unless you get a specific permit from the relevant minister. Fernwood Female Fitness Centre are a gym network for women only. They managed to get a permit from the minister to reject all males on grounds of sex/gender not fitting their business model. While discrimination is generally illegal, you can get around it if you can make a good case. At least in Australia. There is a gay bar in Sydney that has done the same thing and is officially and legally gay only. In Melbourne there is a group of well organized hippie nudists who have a weekly swim meet at a public pool, on a weekday evening when the pool would usually be closed. They cover the cost of opening it for their exclusive use. Something like this may well be possible for your group. There is also a new invention called the burqini, a swimsuit designed to meet at least moderate Muslim rules - neck-to-ankle coverage, super modest (and I bet it prevents sunburn and skin cancer too!). This might help some of the less extreme Muslims but I believe that the strictest ones forbid men and women ever to bathe within sight of the opposite sex. Sorry, was I allowed to post in a thread marked "Women only"? I've been having doubts about myself ever since I posted in the handbag thread. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

01-17-2008, 08:32 AM	#8
LJ i am myself Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: via blackberry, maybe Posts: 750	Iron my shirt, bitch. __________________ Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show ... -C.Dickens

01-17-2008, 08:40 AM	#9
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	LJ is totally a girl. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

01-17-2008, 08:41 AM	#10
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	[ runs away and cries ... "if you don't know why I'm upset then I'm certainly not going to tell you!"... ] Well, that wasn't as bad as what you could have said I suppose. Nevertheless, :p to you sir! __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

01-17-2008, 10:24 AM	#12
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	__________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

01-18-2008, 05:47 AM	#13
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	We have had similar considerations in our authority regarding girls only and boys only youth nights at local community centres and women only language classes. I would suggest getting further advice from your local authority as to what requirements/legal restrictions there are. On the whole in the UK the attitude seems to be that gender specific events/classes are acceptable where they can be shown to be of benefit. So, if it can be shown that girls/women are likely to be excluded from an activity if the activity is only available in a mixed gender setting then it's usually acceptable to provide a gender specific alternative. The business model argument also seems to apply here as we have female only driving schools, insurance companies and fitness clubs. It's also acceptable (in fact legaly obligated) to separate the sexes in most sports. In any sport where contact is intrinsic such as footballe girls and boys can only play together until the age of (I think) 11.

01-19-2008, 04:37 PM	#14
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	I still don't know why the class separation is necessary? __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

01-19-2008, 07:29 PM	#15
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	what class separation are you referring to, cic? __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

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