Sanctuary

[xoxoxoBruce]

Churches pushing sanctuary movement to help illegal immigrants

Churches across the US have agreed to become part of the New Sanctuary Movement [advocacy website], a program to protect illegal immigrants from arrest and deportation and place pressure on the government to make becoming a citizen an easier process. Thus far, churches in five large US cities have plans to protect illegal immigrants, with the possibility of housing them on church grounds, and on Wednesday San Pablo's Lutheran Church in North Hollywood and Our Lady Queen of Angels [church website] Catholic Church in Los Angeles offered their buildings as shelter to one person each. The New Sanctuary Movement states in its pledge that:
We stand together in our faith that everyone, regardless of national origin, has basic common rights, including but not limited to: 1) livelihood; 2) family unity; and 3) physical and emotional safety. We witness the violation of these rights under current immigration policy, particularly in the separation of children from their parents due to unjust deportations, and in the exploitation of immigrant workers.

Very simple;
1-Deport the illegal aliens.
2-Make them take their spawn with them unless they can provide a trust fund to provide for them until they are 18.
3-Jail ANYONE that interferes with the process.
4-Tax churches, Mosques and Synagogues that attempt to hide fugitives.

Yes, I am as serious as a heart attack.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Churches pushing sanctuary movement to help illegal immigrants Very simple;
1-Deport the illegal aliens.
2-Make them take their spawn with them unless they can provide a trust fund to provide for them until they are 18.
3-Jail ANYONE that interferes with the process.
4-Tax churches, Mosques and Synagogues that attempt to hide fugitives.

Yes, I am as serious as a heart attack.

I agree 100%. And the Demoncrat that wins the big chair in washington will pat the issue on the head for 2 years and promise them a guest worker program and fast track to citizenship.

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Very simple;
1-Deport the illegal aliens.
2-Make them take their spawn with them unless they can provide a trust fund to provide for them until they are 18.
3-Jail ANYONE that interferes with the process.
4-Tax churches, Mosques and Synagogues that attempt to hide fugitives.

I suppose it's very simple to for you to wish for, anyway. Reality is, this agenda would be too expensive to implement full-scale. There won't be any taxation of churches, etc. and even if there were, it wouldn't cover the cost.

Regarding "spawn"--whether you like it or not, those who are born here, are citizens. Anyone who has a problem with that is welcome to go back to their ancestors' country of origin.

Churches across the US have agreed to become part of the New Sanctuary Movement [advocacy website], a program to protect illegal immigrants from arrest and deportation and place pressure on the government to make becoming a citizen an easier process.

Since the people (i.e. human beings) who'd seek sanctuary want to become citizens, what is your problem, exactly? Any other reason besides the petty and very often unrealistic, "they should have gone through the 'proper' channels from their countries of origin"?

[jinx]

"they should have gone through the 'proper' channels from their countries of origin"?

Why is that petty and unrealistic?

[xoxoxoBruce]

I suppose it's very simple to for you to wish for, anyway. Reality is, this agenda would be too expensive to implement full-scale. There won't be any taxation of churches, etc. and even if there were, it wouldn't cover the cost.

What would it cost? It's easy for you to say we can't do it because it's too expensive, give me some numbers...and their source.

Regarding "spawn"--whether you like it or not, those who are born here, are citizens. Anyone who has a problem with that is welcome to go back to their ancestors' country of origin.

Yes, according to the supreme court they are. BUT, they are not obliged to stay here, so this bullshit about wrenching children from their parents is complete bullshit.
Also, why should I have to support the little bastards, why does their spawn become my problem? Why am I responsible for their housing, education and medical care.... as if I wasn't already.

Since the people (i.e. human beings) who'd seek sanctuary want to become citizens, what is your problem, exactly? Any other reason besides the petty and very often unrealistic, "they should have gone through the 'proper' channels from their countries of origin"?

Since the people (ie criminals openly flaunting the laws that everyone else abides by or pays a penalty) are here illegally, that is my problem exactly. Any other reasons besides they don't respect and obey our laws", break the welfare and health care systems and contribute mightily to the increased crime rate, are unnecessary.

[monster]

America has an immigration problem. How is this helping anyone except the churches' publicty campaigns? There are regulations about entering the US when pregnant and about to drop to prevent people claiming residence on these grounds (US baby) (don't know if these are official or unoffical). People do this specifically to get a foothold. Offspring will be entitled to the nationality of their parents, it's not as if they have no-where to go. yes, they are American, they have a right to remain. They can be adopted by people who actually have the means to support them..... Just a thought

/legal immigrant rant

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

What would it cost? It's easy for you to say we can't do it because it's too expensive, give me some numbers...and their source.

Yes, according to the supreme court they are. BUT, they are not obliged to stay here, so this bullshit about wrenching children from their parents is complete bullshit.
Also, why should I have to support the little bastards, why does their spawn become my problem? Why am I responsible for their housing, education and medical care.... as if I wasn't already.

Since the people (ie criminals openly flaunting the laws that everyone else abides by or pays a penalty) are here illegally, that is my problem exactly. Any other reasons besides they don't respect and obey our laws", break the welfare and health care systems and contribute mightily to the increased crime rate, are unnecessary.

You want numbers from me? How about give me some numbers showing how much you're supposedly supporting "the little bastards." How much are undocumented immigrants, specifically, breaking the welfare and healthcare systems? How mightily are they contributing to the crime rate?

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by jinx

Why is that petty and unrealistic?

For many new immigrants, it's often unrealistic because the waiting periods are too long to wait (currently at least 10 years) to just get a visa, when you need to support yourself and your family now.

For immigrants who are already here, particularly if they've lived in the U.S. most of their lives, the U.S. is their home. They've gone to school, established networks, and most likely are gainfully employed here. What is the point of forcing them to go back to a country they have little, if any, connection to, just to go through a bureaucratic process?

[jinx]

Yeah, you know, I have a cart full of groceries but I'm in big hurry so I use the express lane. Fuck everyone else, their life isn't neary as hectic as mine... [/sarcasm]

If they're not here legally they shouldn't be here at all, sob story or not.

[xoxoxoBruce]

They have all been posted over and over in every immigration thread we've had.
But I've never seen any one come up with costs of deporting them.
Certainly it's not the Immigration Service that we're paying anyway.
Court system? That can't be much, bring them before a Magistrate, no proof of citizenship, on the bus.
Although I hear they are now holding them until they can make as sure as they can, the criminals aren't wanted for something else also. That is a minor expense, even less if you just chain them up and don't feed them while they're being checked out.

[piercehawkeye45]

Because you can't give an estimate on it.

Give an estimate on how much the "war on terror" or the "war on drugs" will cost? Then what are the chances it is even close. Zero.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

It's hardly petty and unrealistic, but the real problem isn't that America has an immigration problem: it's that too many other countries have a severe middle-class problem. The problem being that they don't have one.

The example is particularly obvious in Latin America: rather than the North American legion of smallholders, some of whom became by their efforts, well, largeholders, Latin America was sparsely colonized by fairly well-fixed aristocratic types and warriors who became large landholders, and there was practically no population between these and the landless, penniless masses.

This has persisted for a very long time. Anyone there who's sick of being penniless has to look elsewhere. And here they are -- and doing well enough to send billions in remittances to their families still in Mexico, keeping that economy afloat, being third in that nation's income behind tourism and oil.

Where the other nations have erred, and consequently are suffering a brain drain and a loss of talent and energy, is in not establishing an American-type sociopolitical order: secure property rights, an absolute minimum of government regulation (that's where we started, anyway), economic liberty to move one's funds around however one thinks best, political liberty and freedom of association -- all these things and more work together, making America supremely wealthy per capita, and all other contenders into also-rans, and also-stumbleds.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Give an estimate on how much the "war on terror" or the "war on drugs" will cost? Then what are the chances it is even close. Zero.

Do you think this is relevant in some way or are you just trying to take a shot at the other team?

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by jinx

Yeah, you know, I have a cart full of groceries but I'm in big hurry so I use the express lane. Fuck everyone else, their life isn't neary as hectic as mine... [/sarcasm]

If they're not here legally they shouldn't be here at all, sob story or not.

That analogy does not even come close to what many of the actual situations are. Not sure if you're aware, but people die, are raped, maimed, and robbed of everything they own trying to get to the U.S. It's not a matter of convenience in these cases, it's desperation.

[jinx]

Are the ones who get in (illegally) more desperate than everyone else, or is it just more convenient/easier for them to sneak in? Some desperate people have entire oceans in their way...