Ancient astronomical device

11-30-2006, 07:05 PM

Ancient astronomical device thrills scholars

Story Highlights
• Ancient calculator was an astronomical instrument of great precision
• The device could track the movements of the sun and moon through the zodiac
• Scholar says there is nothing like it in the history of astronomy

The Antikythera Mechanism was able to align the number of lunar months with years and display where the sun and the moon were in the zodiac.

LONDON, England (Reuters) -- An ancient astronomical calculator made at the end of the 2nd century BC was amazingly accurate and more complex than any instrument for the next 1,000 years, scientists said on Wednesday.

The Antikythera Mechanism is the earliest known device to contain an intricate set of gear wheels. It was retrieved from a shipwreck off the Greek island of Antikythera in 1901 but until now what it was used for has been a mystery.

Although the remains are fragmented in 82 brass pieces, scientists from Britain, Greece and the United States have reconstructed a model of it using high-resolution X-ray tomography.

They believe their findings could force a rethink of the technological potential of the ancient Greeks.

"It could be described as the first known calculator," said Professor Mike Edmunds, a professor of astrophysics at Cardiff University in Wales.

"Our recent work has applied very modern techniques that we believe have now revealed what its actual functions were."

The calculator could add, multiply, divide and subtract. It was also able to align the number of lunar months with years and display where the sun and the moon were in the zodiac.

Edmunds and his colleagues discovered it had a dial that predicted when there was a likely to be a lunar or solar eclipse. It also took into account the elliptical orbit of the moon.

"The actual astronomy is perfect for the period," Edmunds told Reuters.

"What is extraordinary about the thing is that they were able to make such a sophisticated technological device and to be able to put that into metal," he added.

The model of the calculator shows 37 gear wheels housed in a wooden case with inscriptions on the cover that related to the planetary movements.

Francois Charette, of the Ludwig-Maximilians University in Munich, Germany, said the findings, reported in the journal Nature, provide a wealth of data for future research.

"Newly deciphered inscriptions that relate to the planetary movements make it plausible that the mechanism originally also had gearings to predict the motion of the planets," he said in a commentary.

Edmunds described the instrument as unique, saying there is nothing like it in the history of astronomy. Similar complicated mechanisms were not been seen until the appearance of medieval cathedral clocks much later.

"What was not quite so apparent before was quite how beautifully designed this was," he said. "That beauty of design in this mechanical thing forces you to say 'Well gosh, if they can do that what else could they do?'"

lumberjim · 11-30-2006, 07:35 PM

WOW

11-30-2006, 07:42 PM

It's tha' damn alieeenz!!!

Tonchi · 11-30-2006, 08:03 PM

The History Channel has 2 hours worth of film about this extraordinary item. I saw the program last year, and was amazed at how they did the X-rays and attempted to figure out if it could be reconstructed to work by using those gears as a template. If you can find this program in your listings, it is worth watching.

BTW: The photo accompanying the article is NOT that of the original device, but rather is the model constructed using the same technology available to the Greeks to make it as authentic as possible. The original was squashed flat and encrusted with coral and sediments and had a lovely blue-green patina. Although it was suspected that this was a very complex device from the beginning, without the invention of advanced x-ray technology we would never have been able to "see" all of the pieces because they could not have been separated and some of the parts were only known from the "imprint" left in the sediments.

11-30-2006, 08:28 PM

Reminds me of the cool calender hats.

JayMcGee · 11-30-2006, 08:41 PM

of more import is the realisation that 2200 hundred years ago the universe was perceived as mechanistic.

11-30-2006, 08:51 PM

By more than one society.
This is not the only device like this.

WabUfvot5 · 11-30-2006, 09:03 PM

Can't help but wonder if this wouldn't have even been a mystery if the great library at Alexandria had survived.

Tonchi · 12-01-2006, 02:37 AM

The History Channel report on the Antikythera Mechanism was part of a series on the lost technology of ancient civilizations. Included in their investigations were several well known scientists of the ancient world, some of whose writings survived but mostly are known today by their reputation. As Jebediah said, the tragic loss of the Great Library of Alexandria deprived the world of science and engineering which was not reinvented for a millenium. One of them, a Greek, had actually invented the steam engine but did not know what would be a practical application for it so it just became a toy to amuse guests and rulers with. Mechanical clocks, vending machines, toy menageries, "speaking" statues, and doors which opened automatically were all known to the Greeks, Romans, and some of the major cities of their colonies in the Middle East. History Channel has shown some fascinating and well-researched reports on these.

Trilby · 12-01-2006, 07:06 AM

Humans are so forgetful. Nothing new under the sun.
Makes me wonder what else we've forgotten.

Elspode · 12-01-2006, 08:08 AM

How to be humane?

chrisinhouston · 12-01-2006, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

It's tha' damn alieeenz!!!

Yea, isn't it that thing in that movie, Stargate?

Better call in Kurt Russel!

Trilby · 12-01-2006, 09:18 AM

Aliens? How about Atlantis?

12-01-2006, 10:54 AM

Them wern't alieenz... different dimension. Don't you know nutin'?

11-30-2006, 07:05 PM	#1
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Ancient astronomical device Ancient astronomical device thrills scholars Story Highlights • Ancient calculator was an astronomical instrument of great precision • The device could track the movements of the sun and moon through the zodiac • Scholar says there is nothing like it in the history of astronomy The Antikythera Mechanism was able to align the number of lunar months with years and display where the sun and the moon were in the zodiac. LONDON, England (Reuters) -- An ancient astronomical calculator made at the end of the 2nd century BC was amazingly accurate and more complex than any instrument for the next 1,000 years, scientists said on Wednesday. The Antikythera Mechanism is the earliest known device to contain an intricate set of gear wheels. It was retrieved from a shipwreck off the Greek island of Antikythera in 1901 but until now what it was used for has been a mystery. Although the remains are fragmented in 82 brass pieces, scientists from Britain, Greece and the United States have reconstructed a model of it using high-resolution X-ray tomography. They believe their findings could force a rethink of the technological potential of the ancient Greeks. "It could be described as the first known calculator," said Professor Mike Edmunds, a professor of astrophysics at Cardiff University in Wales. "Our recent work has applied very modern techniques that we believe have now revealed what its actual functions were." The calculator could add, multiply, divide and subtract. It was also able to align the number of lunar months with years and display where the sun and the moon were in the zodiac. Edmunds and his colleagues discovered it had a dial that predicted when there was a likely to be a lunar or solar eclipse. It also took into account the elliptical orbit of the moon. "The actual astronomy is perfect for the period," Edmunds told Reuters. "What is extraordinary about the thing is that they were able to make such a sophisticated technological device and to be able to put that into metal," he added. The model of the calculator shows 37 gear wheels housed in a wooden case with inscriptions on the cover that related to the planetary movements. Francois Charette, of the Ludwig-Maximilians University in Munich, Germany, said the findings, reported in the journal Nature, provide a wealth of data for future research. "Newly deciphered inscriptions that relate to the planetary movements make it plausible that the mechanism originally also had gearings to predict the motion of the planets," he said in a commentary. Edmunds described the instrument as unique, saying there is nothing like it in the history of astronomy. Similar complicated mechanisms were not been seen until the appearance of medieval cathedral clocks much later. "What was not quite so apparent before was quite how beautifully designed this was," he said. "That beauty of design in this mechanical thing forces you to say 'Well gosh, if they can do that what else could they do?'"

11-30-2006, 07:35 PM	#2
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	WOW __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

11-30-2006, 08:03 PM	#4
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	The History Channel has 2 hours worth of film about this extraordinary item. I saw the program last year, and was amazed at how they did the X-rays and attempted to figure out if it could be reconstructed to work by using those gears as a template. If you can find this program in your listings, it is worth watching. BTW: The photo accompanying the article is NOT that of the original device, but rather is the model constructed using the same technology available to the Greeks to make it as authentic as possible. The original was squashed flat and encrusted with coral and sediments and had a lovely blue-green patina. Although it was suspected that this was a very complex device from the beginning, without the invention of advanced x-ray technology we would never have been able to "see" all of the pieces because they could not have been separated and some of the parts were only known from the "imprint" left in the sediments. __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true. Last edited by Tonchi; 12-01-2006 at 02:16 AM.

11-30-2006, 08:41 PM	#6
JayMcGee Cardigan-wearing man Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Much Binding In The Marsh Posts: 1,082	of more import is the realisation that 2200 hundred years ago the universe was perceived as mechanistic. __________________ I like wearing cardigans...... my current favourite is an orange cable-knit with real leatherette buttons.

12-01-2006, 02:37 AM	#9
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	The History Channel report on the Antikythera Mechanism was part of a series on the lost technology of ancient civilizations. Included in their investigations were several well known scientists of the ancient world, some of whose writings survived but mostly are known today by their reputation. As Jebediah said, the tragic loss of the Great Library of Alexandria deprived the world of science and engineering which was not reinvented for a millenium. One of them, a Greek, had actually invented the steam engine but did not know what would be a practical application for it so it just became a toy to amuse guests and rulers with. Mechanical clocks, vending machines, toy menageries, "speaking" statues, and doors which opened automatically were all known to the Greeks, Romans, and some of the major cities of their colonies in the Middle East. History Channel has shown some fascinating and well-researched reports on these. __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true.

11-30-2006, 07:42 PM	#3
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	It's tha' damn alieeenz!!!

11-30-2006, 08:28 PM	#5
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Reminds me of the cool calender hats.

11-30-2006, 08:51 PM	#7
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	By more than one society. This is not the only device like this.

11-30-2006, 09:03 PM	#8
WabUfvot5 Operations Operative Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 634	Can't help but wonder if this wouldn't have even been a mystery if the great library at Alexandria had survived.

12-01-2006, 07:06 AM	#10
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Humans are so forgetful. Nothing new under the sun. Makes me wonder what else we've forgotten. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

12-01-2006, 08:08 AM	#11
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	How to be humane? __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

12-01-2006, 09:18 AM	#13
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Aliens? How about Atlantis? __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

12-01-2006, 10:54 AM	#14
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Them wern't alieenz... different dimension. Don't you know nutin'?

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