Sominotsuchagoodidea?

elSicomoro · 07-25-2002, 07:09 PM

The Sycamore admits that he has a sleeping problem. I love working early hours, yet I am a night owl, so I wind up getting anywhere from 3-6 hours of sleep per night. I've recently begun trying to get to bed earlier, but then I just lay there for an hour or more before I finally fall asleep. I don't drink any caffeine after noon time, and try to avoid any sugars or carbs after dinner.

So, I decided to try something new. I have never taken sleeping pills before, so I went to Acme to peruse the selection. Almost all of them have the same active ingredient, and I don't have a known allergy to it, so I picked up a box of Sominex. My understanding is that you have to allow yourself a good night's rest before you take one (i.e. 7-8 hours). I didn't take it until 11pm Tuesday (allowing myself just over 6 hours of sleep), but I figured the worst case scenario would be that I would oversleep and just be late for work. Not a major deal.

I took the pill, and it seemed to work rather quickly, in that I felt tired. Good. So, I settled into bed at 11:30. But then...I lay there...and lay there...and lay there...for at least an hour. Our house was cool (about 70 degrees), yet I was profusely sweating. I was worried that I was having a bad reaction to the pill, but then I fell asleep.

I woke up at my normal time (6:05am) and felt like absolute hell. I would open my eyes and feel incredibly heavy, yet numb. I would close my eyes and feel like I was floating. I was also developing a mild headache that I did not think was caffeine-related (as I consume a standard amount of caffeine each day). I didn't want to call off work, so I got dressed and made my way to work, trying not to fall asleep on the bus or subway.

By the time I started work at 8:30, I felt like I was stoned. My head felt incredibly heavy, the numbers on my work pages seemed to be moving around, and it was hard for me to compose my Cellar postings. I tried to eat a couple of pop tarts in the hopes that I would feel a bit better...no go. I ate lunch at 1 and still felt horrible. Finally, it became unbearable at 1:45 and I came home.

The whole time I was on the subway and bus, I was sweating profusely and felt clammy, even though the A/C was on full-blast. I suspected that I might have a sinus headache (since our weather did a 180 from Tuesday), but this was unlike any other pain I have ever had in my head. There was a moment where it hurt too much to talk, and I felt like my head was shrinking in on my brain. Finally, I fell asleep just before 4.

When I woke up just before 6, I felt incredibly better. No more headache or loopiness...back to normalcy. But the whole thing scared the living shit out of me. I was honestly afraid that I might die Tuesday, and kept praying to God to let me wake up.

I'm not sure what the hell happened here. Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride (the main ingredient in sominex, unisom, etc.) is an antihistamine that is supposed to dry you out and help you sleep. It's also the same ingredient in Benadryl, and I take that frequently for allergies, though not recently. But I've never had a bad side effect from taking it before. It could have been my allergies or even food poisoning, but this...this was completely different.

In any event, I'm just glad that I feel 900% better. All the more reason for me to find a permanent job, get health insurance, and see a doctor.

Griff · 07-25-2002, 07:56 PM

Isn't that the stuff in over the counter sinus medication? That stuff screws my systems big time.

elSicomoro · 07-25-2002, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Griff
Isn't that the stuff in over the counter sinus medication? That stuff screws my systems big time.

The one I mentioned is in Benadryl and almost all the sleep medicines (with the exception of Alluna, which is a natural supplement). In checking out NIH, there are 16 different antihistamines, which vary in what they do and their side effects. Most of the OTC stuff is one antihistamine or another (e.g. Chlor-Trimeton contains Chlorpheniramine).

I just read this from the American Academy of Family Physicians:

"Most antihistamines that you need a prescription for are the non-sedating type. That means they won't make you sleepy. If you've used an over-the-counter antihistamine, it probably made you sleepy. Non-sedating medicines are better for children during school hours and people who work with machinery or drive cars."

Hey, what the HELL?! Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Undertoad · 07-25-2002, 09:14 PM

I think some new drugs don't go over the counter early in their lifetime because they are bigger money-makers if Medicare and insurance companies are paying for them.

Plus, I think if something is over the counter it has to have really low toxicity and stuff... you have to be able to survive a huge overdose, in order to be OTC.

Bitman · 07-25-2002, 09:54 PM

First, you need to question whether you really need this. If you're stable, maybe you just need to schedule your naps better. (You do need naps, don't you?)

If you wanna get exotic, there's a system of sleep that involves short naps scattered around the day. I forget the name, sposedly it can work well, but adjusting to it is very rough.

The best sleeping pill I know if is Ambien.

Amazing stuff, very quick, lasts only 4 hours, and has no side effects the next day. Long term use could frell with your brain, but a couple weeks to rotate your clock is no problem. The only real problem is the cost -- about $2 per pill. Prescription only.

I swear by Melatonin, myself. The effect is light, but I definitely feel drowsy around 15 minutes after taking one. No known next-day effects, nor long-term effects. Again, the effect is light -- if you're not tired enough to begin with (ie. you weren't up 16+ hours) then it may not be enough, but this is generally only a problem during the first night or two of your new schedule. And you can easily stay awake through the effect too (see 'no discipline' below.

)

It's a non-medicine "nutritional suppliement," so the label is pretty much all BS (mine says "take one pill, 3 times a day.") It also means there are no studies of any sort, so there's some risk. But Melatonin has been around for quite a while now, with no compaints. I get the generic 300 mcg pills (which strangely are the same size as the 3mg pills.) And they're cheap - 3-5 cents each.

I have no discipline to do this right, so I've been using these for a couple years now. (See 'stay awake through', above.

) I'm on and off frequently, and haven't had any side effects ever.

-B

russotto · 07-27-2002, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
I think some new drugs don't go over the counter early in their lifetime because they are bigger money-makers if Medicare and insurance companies are paying for them.

Plus, I think if something is over the counter it has to have really low toxicity and stuff... you have to be able to survive a huge overdose, in order to be OTC.

Correct on the first part, not correct on the second. In fact, one HMO is now petitioning the FDA to make Claritin (AND Clarinex, just for good measure) OTC -- usually, the manufacturers have to petition for that. And there's some possibility that the FDA will approve Claritin for OTC use for treating hives. Of course, that means all us allergy sufferers will be able to buy it OTC and use it in a manner contrary to the package directions. Once Claritin goes OTC, the other manufacturers will have to get off their butts and get their protects OTC too, or lose market share big time.

On the second part: Acetominophen (Tylenol), for instance, is pretty deadly in small overdose. Deadly in a nasty way, too -- shuts down your liver and you die a slow and painful death. The difference between lethal overdose and theraputic dose is considered by the FDA, but it isn't an overriding factor.

elSicomoro · 07-27-2002, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by russotto
Correct on the first part, not correct on the second. In fact, one HMO is now petitioning the FDA to make Claritin (AND Clarinex, just for good measure) OTC -- usually, the manufacturers have to petition for that. And there's some possibility that the FDA will approve Claritin for OTC use for treating hives. Of course, that means all us allergy sufferers will be able to buy it OTC and use it in a manner contrary to the package directions. Once Claritin goes OTC, the other manufacturers will have to get off their butts and get their protects OTC too, or lose market share big time.

A decision by the FDA on Claritin is supposed to come in late November. Schering-Plough has apparently decided it wants to put Claritin OTC now..."If Schering switches Claritin to over-the-counter status on its own, it could prevent prescription generic versions from hitting the market and eroding Clarinex sales." (Forbes)

I hope the hell it does go OTC...that shit is $86 a month w/o insurance. :p

elSicomoro · 07-28-2002, 09:27 PM

For the record, at the moment, I am under a Benadryl spell. I feel a bit loopy, but not too bad. (Gotta go with it since I can't afford Claritin at the moment.) One Benadryl has half of what one Sominex does. Hmmm...perhaps I just had too much Diphenhydramine at one time. *shrugs*

Thanks for the info Bitman...I might have to check that out.

I think my biggest problem is discipline. I know damned good and well that I should be in bed between 10pm and midnight, since I get up shortly after 6am. Unfortunately, I get side-tracked playing online, watching TV, doing chores, etc. Then, when I finally get to bed, I lie there forever.

It's almost 10:30 now, so I plan to be in bed by 11:30 at the latest. I did pretty good this weekend: Got to bed relatively early (2am at the latest), and woke up naturally both days relatively early (before 12). Normally on weekends, I stay up until sunrise. When I went to bed, I was tired, and fell asleep rather quickly. I also ate well this weekend, got a bit of exercise, and didn't consume much caffeine. I am hoping it's a good sign.

russotto · 07-29-2002, 11:05 AM

Note that Clarinex is to Claritin as Allegra is to Seldane -- your body converts Clariten to Clarinex . So once Claritin goes OTC, there's no reason to buy the more expensive Clarinex (though the mfgr will try to make you think otherwise).

elSicomoro · 07-29-2002, 11:17 AM

I took Seldane until it was yanked off the market. Accidentally took two too close together once. Man, I felt higher than a kite. Apparently, that was as popular on the streets in '93 as Oxycontin is now. People were offering me $2 a pill...no thanks.

elSicomoro · 08-06-2002, 05:30 PM

I HAVE THE ANSWER!!!

Maybe.

As I mentioned last week, I'm using benadryl due to lack of funds for Claritin at the moment. After eating a cherry danish Friday night, I broke out in a horrible rash and starting itching like mad. I took one benadryl...no help. Took a second one...still no help. (You can take two at a time.) I was going mad...finally, I took a lukewarm bath, covered myself with lotion, and felt 800% better.

Then, I got incredibly loopy...and grew incredibly tired. I woke up at 8 Saturday morning with a bad headache, which grew worse during the day. I felt spacey, and had problems in trying to post messages on the Cellar.

Sound familiar?

Two benadryl have the same active ingredient as one sominex. I am 100% certain that it had nothing to do with food, and I had plenty of caffeine in me. What helped? Rest and 4 excedrin.

I have come to the conclusion that my body cannot handle more than 25mg of Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride within a certain amount of time. I think I know better now, and I feel relieved that I apparently got to the bottom of this mess.

Now I just need some Claritin.

russotto · 08-07-2002, 02:47 PM

Got a friend in Canada? Have him/her send you some... stuff's cheap up there.

Bitman · 08-09-2002, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
Now I just need some Claritin.

No dude, you just need some Melatonin. Seiously, the stuff's cheap, and there are no side effects. Unless you're allergic to it, of course.

Actually I'm looking for confirmation, since I haven't heard much about this stuff from other people.

elSicomoro · 08-10-2002, 11:56 AM

Ummm....bitman, are you saying that melatonin works on allergies?

That's why I use Claritin. I have various allergies that cause me to break out in rashes and itch sessions. I finally had to break down and order a refill of it...Benadryl wasn't helping anymore. It's well worth the $86. Besides, if I had went to the free clinic, I would have lost that much money by sitting there all day anyway.

Look buddy, I'm not gonna be your guinea pig to test your melatonin theory.

Seriously, I'll have to look into it and how it interacts with the body. I've been doing alright on the sleep factor recently, so I might not need anything anymore.

Bitman · 08-13-2002, 09:45 PM

Apparantly I was just yapping .. There always seems to be a detail I overlook or something. I'll shut up now.

07-25-2002, 07:09 PM	#1
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Sominotsuchagoodidea? The Sycamore admits that he has a sleeping problem. I love working early hours, yet I am a night owl, so I wind up getting anywhere from 3-6 hours of sleep per night. I've recently begun trying to get to bed earlier, but then I just lay there for an hour or more before I finally fall asleep. I don't drink any caffeine after noon time, and try to avoid any sugars or carbs after dinner. So, I decided to try something new. I have never taken sleeping pills before, so I went to Acme to peruse the selection. Almost all of them have the same active ingredient, and I don't have a known allergy to it, so I picked up a box of Sominex. My understanding is that you have to allow yourself a good night's rest before you take one (i.e. 7-8 hours). I didn't take it until 11pm Tuesday (allowing myself just over 6 hours of sleep), but I figured the worst case scenario would be that I would oversleep and just be late for work. Not a major deal. I took the pill, and it seemed to work rather quickly, in that I felt tired. Good. So, I settled into bed at 11:30. But then...I lay there...and lay there...and lay there...for at least an hour. Our house was cool (about 70 degrees), yet I was profusely sweating. I was worried that I was having a bad reaction to the pill, but then I fell asleep. I woke up at my normal time (6:05am) and felt like absolute hell. I would open my eyes and feel incredibly heavy, yet numb. I would close my eyes and feel like I was floating. I was also developing a mild headache that I did not think was caffeine-related (as I consume a standard amount of caffeine each day). I didn't want to call off work, so I got dressed and made my way to work, trying not to fall asleep on the bus or subway. By the time I started work at 8:30, I felt like I was stoned. My head felt incredibly heavy, the numbers on my work pages seemed to be moving around, and it was hard for me to compose my Cellar postings. I tried to eat a couple of pop tarts in the hopes that I would feel a bit better...no go. I ate lunch at 1 and still felt horrible. Finally, it became unbearable at 1:45 and I came home. The whole time I was on the subway and bus, I was sweating profusely and felt clammy, even though the A/C was on full-blast. I suspected that I might have a sinus headache (since our weather did a 180 from Tuesday), but this was unlike any other pain I have ever had in my head. There was a moment where it hurt too much to talk, and I felt like my head was shrinking in on my brain. Finally, I fell asleep just before 4. When I woke up just before 6, I felt incredibly better. No more headache or loopiness...back to normalcy. But the whole thing scared the living shit out of me. I was honestly afraid that I might die Tuesday, and kept praying to God to let me wake up. I'm not sure what the hell happened here. Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride (the main ingredient in sominex, unisom, etc.) is an antihistamine that is supposed to dry you out and help you sleep. It's also the same ingredient in Benadryl, and I take that frequently for allergies, though not recently. But I've never had a bad side effect from taking it before. It could have been my allergies or even food poisoning, but this...this was completely different. In any event, I'm just glad that I feel 900% better. All the more reason for me to find a permanent job, get health insurance, and see a doctor.

07-25-2002, 07:56 PM	#2
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Isn't that the stuff in over the counter sinus medication? That stuff screws my systems big time. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-25-2002, 09:14 PM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I think some new drugs don't go over the counter early in their lifetime because they are bigger money-makers if Medicare and insurance companies are paying for them. Plus, I think if something is over the counter it has to have really low toxicity and stuff... you have to be able to survive a huge overdose, in order to be OTC.

07-25-2002, 09:54 PM	#5
Bitman cellar smellar Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: californy, baby! Posts: 403	First, you need to question whether you really need this. If you're stable, maybe you just need to schedule your naps better. (You do need naps, don't you?) If you wanna get exotic, there's a system of sleep that involves short naps scattered around the day. I forget the name, sposedly it can work well, but adjusting to it is very rough. The best sleeping pill I know if is Ambien. Amazing stuff, very quick, lasts only 4 hours, and has no side effects the next day. Long term use could frell with your brain, but a couple weeks to rotate your clock is no problem. The only real problem is the cost -- about $2 per pill. Prescription only. I swear by Melatonin, myself. The effect is light, but I definitely feel drowsy around 15 minutes after taking one. No known next-day effects, nor long-term effects. Again, the effect is light -- if you're not tired enough to begin with (ie. you weren't up 16+ hours) then it may not be enough, but this is generally only a problem during the first night or two of your new schedule. And you can easily stay awake through the effect too (see 'no discipline' below. ) It's a non-medicine "nutritional suppliement," so the label is pretty much all BS (mine says "take one pill, 3 times a day.") It also means there are no studies of any sort, so there's some risk. But Melatonin has been around for quite a while now, with no compaints. I get the generic 300 mcg pills (which strangely are the same size as the 3mg pills.) And they're cheap - 3-5 cents each. I have no discipline to do this right, so I've been using these for a couple years now. (See 'stay awake through', above. ) I'm on and off frequently, and haven't had any side effects ever. -B

07-28-2002, 09:27 PM	#8
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	For the record, at the moment, I am under a Benadryl spell. I feel a bit loopy, but not too bad. (Gotta go with it since I can't afford Claritin at the moment.) One Benadryl has half of what one Sominex does. Hmmm...perhaps I just had too much Diphenhydramine at one time. shrugs Thanks for the info Bitman...I might have to check that out. I think my biggest problem is discipline. I know damned good and well that I should be in bed between 10pm and midnight, since I get up shortly after 6am. Unfortunately, I get side-tracked playing online, watching TV, doing chores, etc. Then, when I finally get to bed, I lie there forever. It's almost 10:30 now, so I plan to be in bed by 11:30 at the latest. I did pretty good this weekend: Got to bed relatively early (2am at the latest), and woke up naturally both days relatively early (before 12). Normally on weekends, I stay up until sunrise. When I went to bed, I was tired, and fell asleep rather quickly. I also ate well this weekend, got a bit of exercise, and didn't consume much caffeine. I am hoping it's a good sign.

07-29-2002, 11:05 AM	#9
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Note that Clarinex is to Claritin as Allegra is to Seldane -- your body converts Clariten to Clarinex . So once Claritin goes OTC, there's no reason to buy the more expensive Clarinex (though the mfgr will try to make you think otherwise).

07-29-2002, 11:17 AM	#10
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I took Seldane until it was yanked off the market. Accidentally took two too close together once. Man, I felt higher than a kite. Apparently, that was as popular on the streets in '93 as Oxycontin is now. People were offering me $2 a pill...no thanks.

08-06-2002, 05:30 PM	#11
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I HAVE THE ANSWER!!! Maybe. As I mentioned last week, I'm using benadryl due to lack of funds for Claritin at the moment. After eating a cherry danish Friday night, I broke out in a horrible rash and starting itching like mad. I took one benadryl...no help. Took a second one...still no help. (You can take two at a time.) I was going mad...finally, I took a lukewarm bath, covered myself with lotion, and felt 800% better. Then, I got incredibly loopy...and grew incredibly tired. I woke up at 8 Saturday morning with a bad headache, which grew worse during the day. I felt spacey, and had problems in trying to post messages on the Cellar. Sound familiar? Two benadryl have the same active ingredient as one sominex. I am 100% certain that it had nothing to do with food, and I had plenty of caffeine in me. What helped? Rest and 4 excedrin. I have come to the conclusion that my body cannot handle more than 25mg of Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride within a certain amount of time. I think I know better now, and I feel relieved that I apparently got to the bottom of this mess. Now I just need some Claritin.

08-07-2002, 02:47 PM	#12
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Got a friend in Canada? Have him/her send you some... stuff's cheap up there.

08-10-2002, 11:56 AM	#14
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Ummm....bitman, are you saying that melatonin works on allergies? That's why I use Claritin. I have various allergies that cause me to break out in rashes and itch sessions. I finally had to break down and order a refill of it...Benadryl wasn't helping anymore. It's well worth the $86. Besides, if I had went to the free clinic, I would have lost that much money by sitting there all day anyway. Look buddy, I'm not gonna be your guinea pig to test your melatonin theory. Seriously, I'll have to look into it and how it interacts with the body. I've been doing alright on the sleep factor recently, so I might not need anything anymore.

08-13-2002, 09:45 PM	#15
Bitman cellar smellar Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: californy, baby! Posts: 403	Apparantly I was just yapping .. There always seems to be a detail I overlook or something. I'll shut up now.

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