A very long post about something that's getting me down

[DanaC]

Warning: this is a long post.

This is going to sound really stupid; however, I need to get it off my chest. My parents' divorce is bothering me.

Why is this stupid? Because a) I'm 34 and b) they got divorced in 1984.

At the time, I coped just fine. I would even say it was a good thing that they split up, as they were not happy together and the atmosphere in our house back then was horrible.

Why's it bothering me now? Well....it's hard to explain, so I'll give you a little bit of background on it.

At the time, I was desperately ill. I'd been off school and having treatment for about a year and was being educated at home by a (rubbish) supply teacher. Mum and Dad were in the 'separating' stage of things which at the time meant they were supposed to leave it for 12 months before actually divorcing. Mum was looking for a house and avoiding Dad. dad was a nightworker and that meant avoiding each other was relatively easy.

We'd had the 'Big Talk' and I'd been allowed to choose who I'd live with when the split happened and given that dad was a nightworker and I was joined at the hip to Mum the choice was an obvious one.

Imagine how that felt? Almost a year of trying to get along normally whilst all that was going on.

I remember my supply teacher asking me if my mum had found a house yet, just as dad walked into the kitchen. I felt like a traitor.

We were supposed to stay for Christmas, but the atmosphere had got so bad that Mum decided to leave a little before, and sorted out temporary accomodation whilst the new house was being renovated.

This is the bit that stays with me.....I was upstairs in my room packing my case and Dad came upstairs and brought me a drink of tea. It felt so weird. I could see the stair case from my doorway and wathed him go downstairs, he looked up and our eyes met but neither of us said anything. He looked so sad.

I put it out of my mind, in that way that 12 year olds can.

Dad never had another partner. (actually, we all are pretty sure that he is a closet Gay, but that's a whole long post in and of itself)
He continued living in the beautiful old house in which I grew up. I would stay at his house from time to time, or visit after school. By now I lived in a different town.

Bit by bit, the collection of junk that dad accrued began to take over the house. Odds and sods that had been left behind, stayed in their place and gathered dust. dad can't throw anything away, he is pathologically unable to. It's a sickness I know. If one of us tried to throw something away, even if it was really really broken, he'd take it out of the bin. The only way to throw a cracked cup was to smash it into dust. When they'd been together, Mum had fought a running battle against this compulsion and managed to hold it at bay to a degree; now without anyone to stop it, his need to keep everything that comes into his possession (including stuff he finds on the road, or by the side of the street) was able to have free reign.

Mum and Dad became friends. He'd visit regularly, they got along better as friends than as partners. She never stopped caring for him and vice versa.
When I fell in love, my new guy and my dad didn't get along. I chose my partner and a distance grew between Dad and me. It didn't last forever, but it did break the pattern of my staying with him. When I visited again the house was even more full of stuff. My old bike, which he'd been 'fixing' was still upside down in the drawing room....a plant pot which had been upturned in the middle of the room was still there, five years later. The canoe I'd been bought when I was 11 ( a full length Snipe slalem canoe) lay up the stairs along the side; my old bedroom, still with the bedding that had been on the bed the last time I'd stayed, was full to bursting with bits of timber which he insisted was for the renovation work he was going to carry out.

After a few years, he started to make sure I didn't go into his house. he made sure nobody went into his house. He'd visit us; he'd answer the door if me or my brother arrived but close it behind him and suggest we went to the pub. He doesn't ;et anybody in his house. I haven't been in it for 15 years, I can only imagine what it's like in there now....and believe me I do imagine it.

The beautiful old cottage is now falling apart. The white wooden window sills have rotted and fallen off; the garden is overgrown and destitute looking(once his pride and joy). The white wooden shutters at the sides of the windows have fallen off, except for the one which is hanging by a corner. The nets on the windows and grey with dust and age. A fir tree in the garden fell over and took out the telegraph wire which connected to his house. It remains unfixed.

At the age of 58 he was made redundant and managed to find a job as a maintenance electrician in a foundry. He worked there until he reached retirement age, despite an accident which led to him very badly burning his legs. He developed a bad chest which wouldn't go away.

Three years ago he was diagnosed with a lung disease. he eventually, after many attempts managed to stop smoking.

Two years ago, a water pipe became damaged and he lost his water supply. He kept insisting that he'd get it dealt with, but in the meantime, he took to visiting Mum ( a two hour drive) and bringing a bit of washing. He went to his friend's house and used his bath most weeks.

The water supply is still not fixed.

Last year a worrying trend started. None of us could get hold of him, he wasn't answering his phone. ten o'clock one night Mum phones me and tells me, she's found out he was in hospital. A friend had called an ambulance because he sounded so ill on the phone; turned out he had collapsed lung. A few months later, a similar inability to get hold of him turnd out to be because he was in hospital with several popped ribs (from coughing I think) and pneumonia.

Whenever Dad stays at mums, it's fine for the first two or three days, but after that he starts to get her down. He's not an easy man to be around sometimes. (though we also have a laugh sometimes, and he's extraordinarily generous; always comes laden with gifts and insists that if any of us need anything we have only to ask) She divorced him for a reason, she does not want to be living with him. She she cares deeply, and was hoping she could persuade him to let us all help him get the house sorted out, or at least get him to consider renting a small flat (he isnt short on cash). he brushes it aside. He is intent on not being helped in that way.

So, because I am so close to mum, when he's getting her down, she vocalises it to me. I'm her best friend, I'm the one she talks to and confides in. Unfortunately, this really bothers me.

Right now, dad is staying at her house for two weeks. he's just had a minor operation and none of us want him to do his recovering in a house with no water supply and few amenities. He certainly isn't well enough to be lugging bottles of water abot the place.

It's been two weeks and Mum's started to get down. She rang me up about ten minutes ago and vented a little. Not nasty, just that it was depressing her and the fact that he's decided to stay another few days just makes her want to cry.

So, now all I can see in my mind's eye, is Dad going downstairs on the day we packed, with that sad look in his eye. I don't want to say anything to ma about it, because then she won't have an outlet for her own hurt and given that she started inviting him to stay partly to facillitate his relationship with me and my brother, that wouldn't be fair. She's the one that is with him when he stays, both my brother and I are so busy that we only manage a few hours of visit....when we leave then it's just Mum and Dad.

So...I'm a little heartsick right now cellarites and it's only going to get worse. He's on portable oxygen bottles now, once or twice a day. He's too proud to let us help him. If we just went ahead and got into his house without his permission, it would be the breaking of our relationship with him. If I contact Social services it would be the ultimate betrayal in his eyes. I feel spectacularly helpless.

The worst part is; I just spent a lovely few hours with him watching the football. My ex also came over and we had a really good laugh. Mum was out. I'd only been back home an hour, feeling all warm and friendly when she rang me.

ok. If any of you made it to the end of that, you probably deserve a medal as well as my thanks for listening.

[be-bop]

It's very sad when parents split and I don't think you ever get over divorce
of your parents no matter how old you are,memories will always pop into
your head and even if you know it has nothing to do with you theres always
guilt that if you were a better child it wouldn't have happened.
I feel though that something will have to be done to get your Dad's
house into some kind of order because it's making him Ill without
the basics ,water etc.
I know you feel that you will be betraying him either doing something yourself
or getting Social Services involved but it seems from what you described
that your father needs help so I think the time to be wary of his
feelings is long gone now,the poor old bugger needs help even if he
say's he doesn't. old people never admit defeat but usually after
they start to get it they realise help should have been accepted long
ago.
My heart goes out to you because we have been in your position with
our parents,its like role reversal where the child is now responsible
for the parents welfare..
The only thing I can suggest is that you sit him down and explain that
you want to help and don't take no for an answer,it may dent your
relationship for a while but in the end it will make everyone's life
a lot easier.

[DanaC]

I hear you bebop and in a way i kind of agree. But...and it's a big but...I know this sounds crazy, but that approach would be easier, if his health was actually worse than it is.
The thing with CPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulminary disease) is that you get ups and downs. Right now, although he has to use the oxygen a couple of times a day and gets out of breath very quickly with any exertion; for much of the time, he is able to get about and lead an independant life. he bobs about in his van; he visits his friends; goes to the pub; drives over the Pennines to see us in halifax....

When he recently had a bad time with pneumonia and was in hospital for a couple of weeks, my brother and I talked to him. We tried to get him to consider a flat (which would alllow im to keep the house as it is and 'deal' with it at his leisure whilst living in comfort). he started to come around and seemed to be considering the idea. Then he began to recover. As he started to feel better, he reverted back to his usual stubborness. When he was well enough to leave hospital he was eager to get back home to his house, where his 'comfort' rubbish is. It's a crutch. As far as I understand this compulsion to collect junk (from other cases I have heard of), the sufferer essentially creates a safety zone of this stuff.

If he was more ill, bizarrely, we could probably persuade him to accept help. Unfortunately (fortunately) he usually recovers to a level that he can function and do his shopping and socialise and generally live some sort of life, too quickly in a way. If he was ill for longer we could break down the resistance.

What we can't really do at this stage is impose help. My brother and I have talked about this ( and mum) and basically decided that the next time he gets ill ( and he will) we will try again.

What I can't do is bring in outside agencies whilst he is still independant. I don't have th right to choose how he lives. Though...I've been tempted on numerous occasions. The house isn't what's made him ill, it's preventing him from recovery at times and it's an exacerbating factor for sure, but what's making him ill is the disease he has. Tricky.

Thanks though, for the advice and empathy *smiles* it helps to hear someone else say it.

umm..another aggravating factor is the whole 'secret life' thing... As I mentioned in my post, I'm fairly convinced dad's actually gay. It's a long story. But... his freind...I don't know if he may be his friend y'know?. He's always kept a large part of his life aside from us. Dad's a bit of a closed book in many ways. He's intensely private. I don't in truth know much about his social circle. I only know that he has a social circle.

*Sighs* See...this is what being sent to a 'character building' boarding school for 9 months a year at the age of four; an authoritarian (damn near victorian) father,; witnessing a massacre in India age 10 and being ripped from his home to start again in the Motherland can do to a chap.

[seakdivers]

Gosh Dana. I wish I had some advice for you.

That is terribly, terribly sad and I am sending you my best wishes.

[Griff]

Sorry for your pain DC.

[DanaC]

Thankyou. I really appreciate that. It's not something I talk about much outside of Mum and my bro (as you can imagine heh) I feel a little better having talked about it with you guys.

[Trilby]

Dana, I read your post and wanted to offer you something more than my heartfelt sympathy--I just feel so inadequate in the face of your pain. Comforting vibes your way, dearheart, but I don't see a way 'round this.

[DanaC]

There ain't one Bri, but thankyou for your kind word and thoughts.

I am in a much better place this morning. Last night was a low ebb. Most of the time I can deal with this without it getting to me too much.

It really did help being able to talk about it. Thanks guys. There really is nothing quite like the Cellar.

[Aliantha]

Dana...my parents got divorced when I was about 20 and I'm now 34. When I read the first part of your post I really could relate to how you're feeling. I don't think it matter what age you are when something like that happens. It still hurts.

I wish you well with it all. I guess when it comes down to it, you only get one set of parents and if they've loved you all your life, there's nothing you can do but love them back and try to be as supportive as you can when they're having problems and try to remember that even though they're parents, they're probably just as heartbroken and upset as you, and it's probably worse that they know you're worried for them. I know that's what it was like for my Mum when she was really ill. She felt like she was burdening me etc.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I reckon they're both lucky to have a daughter like you. They must be very proud.

[DanaC]

Just to add a little balance

Dad's also: funny; charming; well read and clever. He's even still good looking for a man approaching his 70th birthday.

When I was a kid, he used to take me for midnight walks through the park to look for hedgehogs,bats and owls. He knows the latin names for practiacally every plant you can think of....and he's an amazing cook.

Most of the time we laugh about the inability to throw anything away. He gets a twinkl in his eye when I try to tell him that the pot noodle tub he's washing out really isn't ever going to be useful, and starts listing the ways it might come in handy. He can laugh at himself.

[Sundae]

Dana, so sorry to hear that you are in this position. I agree that your relationship with your Dad would never recover from you removing his rubbish crutch by force. If he was simply overwhelmed by housekeeping he'd love you for springcleaning, but finding things in the street and taking them home is obviously a different ballgame.

Is there any chance your Dad would agree to see someone to talk about it? Or would even suggesting that be a black mark against you? My Mum came round to the idea of talking therapy in her late 50s, after seeing it as the merit badge of self-indulgent neurotics for years (an attitude she passed on to me, which I've fought to overcome). Although even writing this I appreciate the intensely private man you've described is unlikely to agree to this.

Could you focus the force of your persuasion on getting his water fixed? As you say, you can't dictate how he lives his life but if you can convince him of the importance of running water it would be a start.

That is all practical stuff (which I'm sure you thought of anyway!) as there's not much I can think to say about the emotional side. It must be very hard to see someone you love and care about in a situation where they won't let you help. Perhaps the reason you are thinking about the divorce is because you felt helpless then, seeing his pain and you feel helpless now?

Try not to take your Mum's suffering on your shoulders too. And many good thoughts to you.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by DanaC

...dad can't throw anything away...

xoxoxoBruce is your Dad!?!? Just kidding.

Unlike in 1984, you can walk down the stairs with him this time.

Sometimes our job isn't to save people from themselves but to provide comfort and companionship to them during their journey. Your dad knows the road he's on and he accepts it. He would like you to accept both him and his fate and for you to walk with him. He would love nothing more than for a moment with you where you both can forget about the burdens you carry around. Maybe this time, you could bring him some tea and a smile and a joke about taking a canoe ride together sometime before the warrantee expires.

You mother would like to be there for him, too. But she can't and she feels awful for it. It would be nice if you could let her off the hook.

Your dad can't bear to let go of you and your mother. Your mother can't bear to witness the inevitable fate of your dad and has no choice but to keep an emotional distance. You are the solution to both problems.

This has to be very hard and you certainly didn't do anything to deserve it. Your parents are very lucky to have a daughter like you. This burden has fallen on your shoulders and you are commended for not resenting it. While you are powerless to alter the coming course of events, there's nothing to say that you can't create some joy along the way. I always thought that was the best approach - to laugh along the way. There will be plenty of time to process it later and it'll be a lot easier if you have fond memories to help you through it.

I'm really sorry.

[DanaC]

*Smiles*

Anyone who thinks that sitting at home on the internet is a way of avoiding social contact, clearly has never been in the Cellar. You guys rock. I think thats possibly some of the best advice anybody has ever given me and I really appreciate the time you've taken to give it.

After I left today I went to spend an hour with Dad, just sitting in Mum's garden talking about the books we've both read. It was really nice; he was in good humour. We even had a little dram of whiskey together.

Mum seems a little cheeier today as well. She filled the cupboard with his favourite foods, and tomorrow she's taking him to my Brother's house to spend some time with his granddaughters; theyre really excited, they haven't seen him for months. The eldest has spent the afternoon painting him a beautiful picture of the valley where we all live.

Thanks again. It's amazing how often this place has saved me from going just a little bit crazy :P

[MaggieL]

Maybe I don't need to point out that sometimes people can't bear to throw things away because down deep they feel like they've lost too much already?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Dana, you're between a rock and a hard place that nobody would want.

The water is important. Most places over here, the authorities won't let you stay in a dwelling without water. I assume it comes from a water company/authority? Do you pay for it separately or in it included in some collective tax for services?

This is hard because I don't know how things work over there, but let me give you an example of what could happen here.
Water service is broken therefore there is no bill to pay. When no bill is being paid the water company lists the property as no service. The local government gets wind of an abandoned property and investigating, finds out someone is living there without water. They then get pissy and demand the water service be fixed of they'll make the resident move out.

Now this is not the usual chain of events, but it is one that can be created and manipulated, while staying in the background.
Like I said, I don't know your system.

Just keep in mind as this whole thing plays out, you're being dragged into the middle.... BUT IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. None of it. Nada.