Major Concession

[tw]

A recent GAO report only repeated what the military must have known long ago. We will not have enough troops, with rotation, to maintain the occupation of Iraq beyond next March. The Joint Cheifs have been saying this for some time (without giving a date). UN members have long known this and have left the US to stew in its own juices. They were right. This president assumed the US would be welcome. Guess what. It is now so bad everywhere in Iraq that even the press reports combined with all these other inputs finally got the attention of George Jr.

Ron Nordland reporting for PBS said he saw the change occur over a three week period. He watched US troops become part of a problem that was only getting worse over the past three months. And since those troops did not even speak the language, they did not understand why things kept getting worse. Did not understand that they were only making things worse and encouraging widespread violence. Currently, every US troop that returns from Iraq will now be examined carefully by a psychiatrist on return because the situation over there has become that stressful.

A major concession to the UN, a special olive branch handed to the French, some sort of special consideration to Putin of Russia, etc are all in process. Even right wing Republican extremists are conceding that we need the UN and that an active UN is in America's interest. This is a complete reversal of right wing rhetoric - as you Rush Limbaugh listeners must acknowledge.

We are losing ten seriously wounded troops every day. We have lost more since this president declared the war over compared to what were lost during the entire original war. We have lost more troops than in the previous Gulf war because the administration is more interested in their agenda than in current realities.

We have not even covered the costs. NASA with ISS, space shuttles, and deep space exploration, does it on a budget of $13 billion. This war, without including capital expenditures and not including any rebuilding, will cost $400+ billion this year and $500 billion next year. Even these figures are still considered mythical by many Democratic and Republican Congressmen.

The EPA superfund is only $50million. Why is Iraq more important? Too late to ask. A lying president got us into the quagmire. The American standard of living must suffer as a result. America unemployed has increased every year now for past three Labor Days - even with record deficients to stimulate the economy. But since rhetoric says that should not happen, then clearly it is not. Denial with propaganda so that you too will deny.

We are spending somewhere around $25,000 every year to liberate Iraqis who universally want one thing - for Americans to leave. Some work for this objective by cooperating. Some by violence. But the bottom line is that we attacked a nation that had no weapons of mass destruction, we lied, and forced a liberation on Iraq that did not want it.

What is worse is how we have screwed up the post war recovery - with Rumsfeld openly declaring no violence in a country that was tearing itself apart. Our leaders refused to beleive all this would happen and refused to acknoledge that it was happening. All this violence is contrary to their agenda - realities be damned.

Saddam could get water and elecricity running in one month. But since this administration is so bull headed about not sending more troops, we have troops not trained to accomplish tasks that are required - even to get the utilities working.

Don't forget about Afghanistan. Same problem. We still have not even provided basic services that the Taliban had no problem providing. In many places, basic water systems still don't work. These are the ticking time bombs that create VietNam scenarios. These are the ticking time bombs that this administration has finally conceded.

Bottom line. The military needed many more troops. They said it would take 200,000 for up to five years. Rumsfled and company said that was rediculous. Look who was correct. As a result, that 200,000 number is too small. But this mental midget presidency is finally conceding to what everyone else knew long ago. Even the GAO could see what an MBA continued to deny - until today. Major concessions today by this administration.

[Undertoad]

A solider who is there and doesn't speak the language doesn't understand the situation.

tw, who is here and doesn't speak the language, but listens to reporters who don't speak the language, feels he understands it with precision.

Sure.

[Beestie]

Basically, the only alternative to the situation as you color it is to not have invaded and that, imho, is simply unacceptable.

I refuse to be held hostage to the fear and terror that some take delight in inflicting on America and I'm glad that we have a president with the balls to kick some ass when that is the only remaining course of action (no alternatives were left unexplored) except the contunuation of 12 years of toothless UN threats.

A good offense is still the best defense (against terror).

The attacks on Americans in Iraq are NOT being orchestrated by a popular uprising of everyday Iraqis who just want Americans out. Our good, good friends in Iran and from Al Queda are largely responsible. To me, it is a good sign that they are this desperate. They will ultimately be defeated.

I continue to believe that twenty years from now, history (American history, anyway) will retrospectively approve of the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq. I cannot imagine how anyone looking back on America's actions could substantiate the argument that the world is less safe as a result of what we have done.

Every generation of Americans has been willing to make the sacrifices necessary to keep the world and ourselves safe. It is troubling to me that we seem to be turning into a nation of weenies who have no stomach for either discipline or sacrifice.

[OnyxCougar]

I agree. It's one thing for Mr. Guy in Iowa to say, "By all means! Invade Iraq! Send our troops over there!" Then tell him he's been drafted. Generally, I think you'll hear more of the "Well I didn't mean me!" than you will "When do we leave?"

I wonder how much the "mob mentality" is at work here.

[Beestie]

OnyxCougar
Crunchy on the outside
Chewy on the inside

Couldn't help but notice how the tagline kind of worked with your handle

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by Beestie


Couldn't help but notice how the tagline kind of worked with your handle

Either you're the first to notice or you're the first to say anything. I would give you a boobie prize, but Bruce would get jealous.

[Undertoad]

There are two critical points of information that, from my point of view, were reported once and then never reported again. Put this into your view of the situation:

-- Earlier, the UN decided that it did not want to be protected by US security because they felt it sent the wrong kind of message.

-- The imam bown up in Nas -- Naza -- that location where they massively car-bombed? Earlier, he had decided that he did not want to be protected by US security because he felt it sent the wrong kind of message.

The Imam's brother said at one point that it was the fault of the US. THAT fact was reported widely -- even though it clearly was NOT the fault of the US.

In fact, because the US felt that the UN was making a huge mistake, they rehearsed emergency extraction from that UN location... twice. As a result their quick response to the bombing was credited with saving many lives.

[Tobiasly]

All you hear about on the news are the people who hate us. There's plenty of folks who are thrilled to have us there, and would choose us over Saddam any day. I've met quite a few of them.

[elSicomoro]

As I see the picture...

--The US is in over its head, and could use--needs--the help from the UN--actually from the countries that won't go in without the UN seal of approval. If anything, in terms of cost control...how much dinero is this costing us right now?

--The UN is just itching to get in, in an attempt to make peace with the US...second thoughts, perhaps? *shrugs* Kofi was the one that suggested the American command thing.

--A lot of the anger at us seems to be coming from the Shi'a...and some (many maybe?) of them seem eager to set up a theocracy. Maybe they're pissed off b/c we didn't help them 12 years ago.

--Iraq desperately needs to be up and running on its own ASAP, for the sake of everyone involved.

[Undertoad]

CNN's Rym Brahimi regularly reports the worst facts she can find followed by one or two sentences of complete conjecture and editorializing. According to her, the US is at extreme fault in every single thing it's done.

But I can't help but notice that every time she does her standup report live from Baghdad, she isn't wearing a head scarf. Sometimes it's the little things that say so much.

[Undertoad]

Ah yes, and it's worth every goddamn penny. This is how you play offense. What was not foreseen, it would appear, is that once the US had taken out Saddam, every last stinking extremist in the area would rub his hands with glee at the possibility of taking their war to the Great Satan with just a 6 or 8 hour drive and no customs. They're flooding the zone with assholes, and additional soldiers just means additional targets. Now we'll see how the Poles like being targets, and hopefully soon the French will take their turn.

[Griff]

tw nailed it exactly... until he got to his conclusion. The addition of more troops does little to protect soft infrastructure targets. We can't assign a trooper to every person in Iraq.

The Democratic contenders are truly screwed. There is no reasonable way to end the conflict, but how can you run on that? The best we can hope for is the end of neo-conservatism and its stunning hubris. That will be up to Bush, is he willing to say he was completely mislead into a conflict unrelated to American security?

From Lew Rockwell

Let's start with the big error. They believed that their will alone was enough to make and remake a country (whether Iraq or Afghanistan) and the world. They saw people as pliable, all events as controllable, and all outcomes as the inevitable working out of a well-constructed plan. Being the top dogs of the world's only superpower, they never doubted their ability to dictate the terms and so they had no plan for what to do if things went wrong.

This forgets several essential components of the structure of reality. People's free will is often backed by the willingness to undertake enormous sacrifice. Such sacrifices are made every day by average Iraqis. Most especially it overlooks certain underlying laws that limit what is possible in human affairs. In the scheme of how the world works, even the largest state is only a bit player. It is capable of creating enormous chaos and transferring huge amounts of wealth, but not of controlling events themselves. Government action often generates results opposite of those the policy is constructed to create.

The Bush administration did not want to believe this. They had a very simple model in mind, namely that Iraq was a country lorded over by a single dictator, and so all that was necessary to take over the country was to displace (decapitate) the dictator and install a new form of government that would run the country according to the liking of the Bush administration. It further believed that all resistance could be crushed by a proper application of violence and the threat of violence.

The truth is that no society operates like this. Human beings don't respond well to being treated like prisoners in someone else's central plan. If the desire is to wholly manage the future, the mega-planner is always a mega-failure, if not always in the short term certainly always in the long term. The Bush administration had bigger dreams than Wilson or FDR. But as Maureen Dowd aptly puts it: "The group that started out presuming it could shape the world is now getting shoved by the world."

[Undertoad]

Lew misses the fundamental point that the "resistance" is largely NOT Iraqi. Even Saddam had to say "See - that wasn't me who offed the Imam."

[elSicomoro]

Eh, you have some links for that claim, UT? I've heard that suspected, and I have heard of non-Iraqi militants getting in the country, but definite confirmation? Maybe I just missed it...

I would think that getting more international troops in as well as getting more Iraqis trained would allow US troops to deal with infrastructure issues.

Originally posted by Undertoad
Ah yes, and it's worth every goddamn penny.

Maybe to you...$79 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan in April, and at least $60 billion more is wanted now. A drop in the bucket of the national budget, but certainly not chump change. There are much better things that the money could be spent on, IMO.

But I can't help but notice that every time she (Rym Brahimi) does her standup report live from Baghdad, she isn't wearing a head scarf.

Even before US occupation, the headscarf was not required in Iraq.

[tw]

Originally posted by Tobiasly
All you hear about on the news are the people who hate us. There's plenty of folks who are thrilled to have us there, and would choose us over Saddam any day. I've met quite a few of them.

All you hear from right wing extremists are that people hate America. But once the hype and fear from Rush Limbaugh types is eliminated, we find a world in despair over how their good friend has gone 'mental midget'. Only an ill informed fool would see hate and enemies everywhere.

In the meantime, people throughout the world openly and correctly challenged what was clearly suspect claims of mythical weapons of mass destruction. This is proof they hate us? We now know no such weapons existed AND that the administration (both in US and UK) were openy lying about knowledge of those weapons - just like Nixon and VietNam.

One who is not paranoid does not hear how all these people hate us. However this president is encouraging Muslim fanatics to recruit terrorists to attack the US. That is something to fear. We have become our own worse enemy - just like in Somolia and VietNam.

In the meantime, eliminate the rhetoric from a right wing administration and listen to what reported in Iraq (by those who speak Arabic). These people who UT also cannot listen to. What those reporters were saying then is now why Geroge Jr is desperately seeking UN help - in direct contradiction to rherotic from right wing extremist Republicans.

Even George Jr suddenly realizes we have no exit strategy. Iraq is becoming the quagmire that military generals warned about. Only right wing extremists did not hear those reports and those warnings. Only right wing extremist contradict the military and say we have enough troops in Iraq. Only right wing extremist would have us forget what generals, now removed by Rumsfeld, were warning about. At least 200,000 troops for up to five years in Iraq. Leaves nothing to rebuild Afghanistan.

The US desperately needs international help because the long term situation in Iraq is not good and getting worse. Those are facts from so many sources who speak Arabic and have been there. Eliminate the administraton lies and the reports are a country that is now in anarchy almost everywhere. And a civilian administrator that has no representative outside of Baghdad - because the Paul Bremer program is in disarray.

Only those who make the world hate us would think the world hates Americans. They are called right wing extremists who think everyone in the UN is an adversary. They are also same people in denial of reports everywhere - from UN representative, US military, and the world press corp.

The US now has a quagmire. We cannot withdraw. We have no exit strategy. Every day the status quo continues (fundamental lack of leadership from both Washington and Bremer), the situation will get worse. Even George Jr has conceded that the money pit called Iraq is a no wing situation - and is desperately putting out olive branches to UN nations - and requesting help.

Todays NY Times has an article on how the 101st is working successuflly. In most cases, insufficient or no support from the Bremer people or from Washington. It demonstrates how this administration is making "ugly Americans" throughout other parts of Iraq - just as in the book "Ugly American".