Phillipine withdrawal

[smoothmoniker]

Regardless of how you feel about the conflict in Iraq, this is a very, very, very bad idea. I'll be rejoicing with everyone else if Angelo de la Cruz makes it home to his family, but this is a bad precedent for the Philippines to set.

-sm

[wolf]

Pulled out all 51 of their troops, eh?

The terrorists probably thought he was from some other country.

Capitulation never works. They'll just want more.

[jaguar]

They were about to anyway, it was just l1 week or so early. Still a stupid move, they've just made life that bit more dangerous for everyone still there.

Say, at some point wasn't there a muslim influence in the Phillipines? Does a muslim minority still reside in that country?

[jaguar]

Influence is one way of putting it. Active muslim extremist group with links to Al Queda, a history of kidnapping people and a constant thorn in the side of the government got decades is another.

There are actually multiple groups based in the South, Abu Syaf (sp?) is the best known for their kidnapping operations but are more common thugs and islamic extremeists. From memory there is another group, MMO I think who are better at the koran waving side of things. Both have been bitchslapped hard in the last couple of years by the army working with US specops.

[Catwoman]

What were they supposed to do? Stay and watch him die? Unlike America, which is sorrowfully resigned to see a civilian decapitated for fear that pulling out would appear 'weak', and not least as a result of a guilty conscience, and of course the issue of control, at least the Phillipine's are showing some support (loyalty?) for their countrymen. As a (small-ish) humanitarian unit, I understand that their retreat may send out a message that Iraq is unsafe for human aid contractors - but hang on a minute, it is unsafe! Along with the Spanish and Honduran contingent - and possibly soon the Bulgarians - they recognise the futility of attempting operation while insurgents are still trying to isolate the government and bloodshed is still rife. I do understand the danger of everyone abandoning ship, and that America may view it as yet again, Americans are the only ones spending and risking lives for redevelopment, but just remember who got us into this mess. I think GWB should be on the front line, fixing bandages and comforting sons and daughters who have lost their parents in yet another suicide bomb as a result of Western intervention.

Originally Posted by Wolf

The terrorists probably thought he was from some other country.

Wolf what does this mean?

[jaguar]

Catwoman, if Iraq is ever to achieve stability now, reconstruction work is utterly essential, probably the second priority behind security. What this does is validate their strategy and make the situation signifigantly more risky for all remaining nationals for countries who have troops in the country.

What's done is done now and the important thing is that somehow Iraq become a stable country, this has undermined that effort. In short, greatest good, greatest number.

[Catwoman]

Yes, I know I may be crying over spilt milk etc., but why expect other countries to remain in Iraq and effectively (and literally) 'clear up'? Clear up buildings, bodies and blood. If you were running a country that had absolutely no say in and therefore nothing to do with the war, would you be willing to put your people out there and risk death? Of course it is vital that reconstruction is completed. But you can understand the reason for withdrawal?

[jaguar]

Well most countries that have token forces are there because they're blowing the US nad hoping for some favours in the future. The situation you're describing is exactly the same as the ones most major nations send peacekeeping forces into via the UN every year.

[Catwoman]

That's very true. But the US would be fucked if they didn't. At what point do they make a stand, and let the US know that next time they plunge headfirst into a full blown war, we won't be there to pick up the pieces.

[jaguar]

But is that fair on the Iraqi people? I think most countries have taken a fairly good medium line, for example, agreeing to train Iraqi troops, but not in Iraq. Enough to let bush know that noone approves but still willing to help a lot of people in need.

The second factor is that *everyone* loses if Iraq becomes a failed state.

[Griff]

The Philipinos must be counting on Bush losing or they're assuming he needs them badly. They have a stake in Iraq but it's about being part of a coalition that'll help them fight the Moslem insurgencey at home. Bushes vindictive nature could cause him to pull back in the Philipines, but they are assuming something like a rational response rational in the sense that it fits the stated goals of the administration, not rational as in truly effective..

[Catwoman]

Originally Posted by Jag

The second factor is that *everyone* loses if Iraq becomes a failed state.

Yes, I concede that the Iraqi people should come first here. It's just such a shame (excuse the euphemism) that so many people have to die to prevent so many people dying.

Originally Posted by glatt

They have a stake in Iraq but it's about being part of a coalition that'll help them fight the Moslem insurgencey at home.

Do they really think the perceived 'coalition' will reciprocate?

[jaguar]

Coalition won't, the US already is in a big way.

I think the Iraqi resistance will fail now, they've shot themselves in both feet with a 12gague by attacking Iraqi civvies and lost the mainstream support that had a legitimate resistance movement. Obviously there are different elements at work but without popular support they will wane and eventully die.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Do they really think the perceived 'coalition' will reciprocate?

We already are.

Must have more coffee