Common Misconception

[Griff]

I think it was Radar who mentioned on another thread that American troops would never fire on American citizens. Do National Guardsman fresh from Iraq count? They will not care what passport a sniper is carrying. I'm more worried about the lives of other folks who may be shot in a confusing protest turned riot situation. We send folks overseas and teach them to overcome any instinct they have not to kill their fellow human beings. Now we're going to put them among a very stressed civilian population. I'm expecting the worst.

[BigV]

Have just heard on the radio that the national guardsmen have orders to shoot to kill looters and snipers.

[glatt]

I have no problem with shooting the snipers, vandals, and arsonists. But what about the looters who are going into stores looking for food and water? Nothing wrong with that. It's going to spoil anyway, and they need it to survive.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by glatt

I have no problem with shooting the snipers, vandals, and arsonists. But what about the looters who are going into stores looking for food and water? Nothing wrong with that. It's going to spoil anyway, and they need it to survive.

Survival trumps ... whatever motivates the "shoot to kill" inclination, period. What's being protected? A case of bottled water? Diapers? First aid kit? Food? Give me a freakin break.

I have less, but not zero, resistance to shooting other threats. Vandalism shouldn't be a capital offense. Arson? I imagine it *could* be possible that arson is a live threat here and now in the Gulf Coast, but I seriously doubt it. Snipers? Fire away. That's a clear and present danger to the public's safety. No problems there. I can easily envision tragic confusion where someone dies holding a gun in their hand who was not a sniper but a defender of his _______ . It's gonna happen.

I also want to emphasize that while it takes a very small number of people to greatly complicate matters in a situation like this, the total number of bad actors compared to the total number of people in the area is very very small. I would want the people enforcing the law, even martial law to be more reluctant than eager to shoot to kill.


edit:

Would you shoot this guy?

Earl Banks holds armfuls of hygiene products he took from the shelves of a pharmacy in New Orleans on Thursday. Area residents have been looting the store since Wednesday, many explaining that they have no other way to get necessities in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Banks was with a group seeking a safe route to the Louisiana Superdome.

[jinx]

CNN

"These are some of the 40,000 extra troops that I have demanded," Blanco said. "They have M-16s, and they're locked and loaded ... I have one message for these hoodlums: These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so if necessary, and I expect they will."


She told CNN Friday that "anybody needs to get food and water wherever they can find it," she said. "I'm not talking about people who are trying to get survival items. I'm talking about people who are threatening other people."

[BigV]

...they are more than willing to do so...

It's gonna be bad.

*shivers*

[xoxoxoBruce]

Arson? I imagine it *could* be possible that arson is a live threat here and now in the Gulf Coast, but I seriously doubt it.

Are you joking? Fire in a city with no operational fire department or easy escape routes is nothing less than murder.

Radar is wrong:

[SmartAZ]

I think it was Radar who mentioned on another thread that American troops would never fire on American citizens.

That is just a lack of awareness. There have been several cases of NG troops firing on US citizens, dozens of cases of fed.gov agents gunning down unarmed citizens, and thousands of cases of cops shooting citizens. We presume that all of these thought they had good reasons, but there has been no indication of any hesitation to shoot people.

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by SmartAZ

That is just a lack of awareness. There have been several cases of NG troops firing on US citizens, dozens of cases of fed.gov agents gunning down unarmed citizens....

Yep, that's what I was telling Radar in the other thread. What's REALLY depressing is that I hear a book called "The Art of Killing" is the text for training our "warriors" nowdays. There was an interview on CNN or some similar station with the author of this book, one of our top experts in training the military. This assumes that the normal compunctions about blowing the shit out of another person you never met before can be overcome and "trained" out of a recruit and will have been so done before he is equipped for "action in the field." How does it make all of you feel to know that someday YOU could fall under the category of "action in the field" as far as this fine soldier is concerned?

[lookout123]

i think you are talking about ON KILLING, by Dave Grossman. it is an excellent read and i highly recommend it. i believe it has been on the suggested reading list for trigger pullers for some time now.

if that is the book you are talking about it, don't knock it until you've read it - i can almost guarantee you have the wrong idea. how that could have happened from watching tv, i'll never know.