Xbox 2

crossfire · 10-08-2004, 06:47 PM

Do you think Xbox 2 should come out, or are we fine with Xbox? I personally think we are fine with the first one.

perth · 10-08-2004, 07:25 PM

That's not really how the business works. You're gonna be just fine with the Xbox... until the Xbox 2 comes out. Technology improves, playerbase stagnates. MS can't keep making money off you if you play the Xbox until you get bored with it and stop playing games on the beast. If that were a good business model, we would all be playng the Atari 2600.

crossfire · 10-08-2004, 08:12 PM

The question I posted was actually a question in the Official Xbox Magazine and since I wasn't able to answer, but had strong views, I thought I'd start up this forum.

perth · 10-08-2004, 08:16 PM

Okay. So share your strong views.

crossfire · 10-08-2004, 09:03 PM

Well, in my honest opinion, I don't think they should release another xbox. PC's are wonderful, but they fall short when it comes to gaming. When you have a top notch computer, you can play any game, but one month behind, and you need to spend another x-amount of dollars updating your computer. Xbox has all the goods. Great game selection, and just like any other console game, games released for xbox were made for xbox, no better system, no worse. Now, if Xbox 2 is released, all the best games will come out on that system, and you will have to spend another 3-400 dollars or whatever buying it when there is already a great system out. Xbox has been gradually lowering its price in order to have the best gaming experience affordable to a greater audience. When Xbox 2 comes out, it will be another year before that reduces its price and then the next big gaming system will be coming out. I just think they should keep xbox around for a little bit longer without upgrading to xbox 2.

perth · 10-08-2004, 09:58 PM

But it's just a continuation of the cycle. Microsoft could say "Yeah, the Xbox kicks ass, so we're just gonna stick with that", but you can be damned sure Sony is still gonna release the PS3, with its upgraded hardware. Microsoft cannot, on it's best day, compete with Sony by doing that. No matter how good the Xbox looks now, it's going to be obsolete eventually. Technology doesn't stop when mankind has reached the pinnacle of "a pretty decent gaming system".

I really like my Saturn (the car. I'm making an analogy. A bad one.), and I bet most Saturn owners like their Saturns. But that doesn't mean Saturn is just gonna stop making cars. The Xbox is a nice system. MS can do a lot to make it an even nicer system. And people will buy it. Make Xbox 2, make a pile of money; Don't make Xbox 2, don't make that pile of money. That's a pretty simple decision to make.

wolf · 10-09-2004, 12:18 AM

I stopped reading gaming trade mags because they have too many tempting ads for games and I haven't finished any of the ones I have already. I think that the PS3 is already in development. I'm a happy PS customer, so I'll probably get one if it's backward compatible to the PS1 and PS2.

Despite the whoo hoo graphics on the Xbox, I'm still not impressed enough by it, or it's game library to want one in the house.

One of my friends has one, and I have played it often enough to know that I'm much happier with the PlayStation family of products.

perth · 10-09-2004, 10:13 AM

If you asked me to explain why I like the Xbox over the PS2, the only even remotely compelling reason is the graphics. I just cannot explain it further than that.

But yeah, Sony nailed it with backwards compatibility. I cannot imagine that they wouldn't do the same with the PS3 and MS would be fucking nuts not to do it with the Xbox 2.

Clodfobble · 10-09-2004, 10:27 AM

Great game selection, and just like any other console game, games released for xbox were made for xbox, no better system, no worse.

You're actually wrong about that. Most games have to sell on more than one platform to be profitable, and that means simultaneously developing for the different requirements of at least two if not three consoles. In an ideal world that would mean three different games that each live up to their maximum potential on their respective machines; in reality you usually end up with one game that can be tweaked to work on all three.

Now granted, they've been thoroughly tested on the Xbox, so you're not going to have the problem of "not enough memory" or whatever to run a certain game. But just because it's released on the Xbox doesn't mean it wasn't designed for a worse system.

Xbox has been gradually lowering its price in order to have the best gaming experience affordable to a greater audience.

Microsoft has been gradually lowering its Xbox price because Sony's always kicked their ass in the sales department. Believe me, it has absolutely nothing to do with some altruistic goal of giving the best game experience to everyone who wants it. Incidentally, the reason Sony's been kicking Microsoft's ass is because their PS2 came out over a year before the Xbox. Microsoft is hoping to reverse that on this next round of consoles, that's why they're desperate to get the Xbox 2 out faster than the PS3.

crossfire · 10-09-2004, 11:34 AM

[quote=Clodfobble]You're actually wrong about that. Most games have to sell on more than one platform to be profitable, and that means simultaneously developing for the different requirements of at least two if not three consoles. In an ideal world that would mean three different games that each live up to their maximum potential on their respective machines; in reality you usually end up with one game that can be tweaked to work on all three.

Then what about the games that say ONLY ON XBOX? I get your point about the fact that its competition the reason that xbox lowered its price, but some sub-reason is that they wanted the best game console to be affordable to more people. Even if that wasn't the main plan, that's what happened.

perth · 10-09-2004, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossfire

I get your point about the fact that its competition the reason that xbox lowered its price, but some sub-reason is that they wanted the best game console to be affordable to more people.

No, they wanted their console to be affordable to more people, which is the same thing as saying that they lowered their price to compete with the PS2. We could argue "best" all day long and while I may be convinced, you'll never get Wolf or VSP (whom I'm sure will weigh in at some point) to buy that.

crossfire · 10-09-2004, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perth

No, they wanted their console to be affordable to more people, which is the same thing as saying that they lowered their price to compete with the PS2.

I feel i have dumbed everybody down by suggesting a difference between lowering their price to get more people's interest and compete with PS2. Sorry all

perth · 10-09-2004, 12:13 PM

Don't be like that, Crossfire. We're all friends here, mostly.

vsp · 10-09-2004, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perth

We could argue "best" all day long and while I may be convinced, you'll never get Wolf or VSP (whom I'm sure will weigh in at some point) to buy that.

I appear to have been invoked.

I can't comment much on the Xbox 2, even taking my oft-quoted disdain for Xbox 1 into account, because I don't know anything about THE SINGLE MOST CRUCIAL VARIABLE concerning it:

What games will be available for it?

That's what it comes down to for me. A console can have super-sharp graphics and incredible sound and Blast Processing and Tint Control and a 5.48172E+12 bit processor and a thousand other technical advantages over its competitors, but if the _software_ isn't there, if the _developers_ aren't there, then it might as well be a shiny black plastic box with the guts of a Bally Astrocade tucked inside.

At this point, it's far too early to speculate as to who'll be developing what for the Xbox 2 or PS3, what will be cross-platform and what will be exclusive, whether either or both consoles will be backwards-compatible, and similar concerns.

Why do I dislike the Xbox? Yes, it's slightly graphically superior to the PS2, but it doesn't have the RPGs I want to play. It gets sloppy seconds months after the fact for the GTA series. It doesn't get the oddball niche titles like Katamari Damacy, which is a goddamned work of art that everyone should play at least once. To my untrained eye, the PS2 versions of cross-platform games (such as the ESPN sports titles) are _close enough_ to their Xbox counterparts to not cause me to rush out and buy another console. (It's not as if Xbox is a GeForce 4 and PS2 is a ColecoVision; both can produce satisfactory graphics.) The games that are majorly hyped for it (Halo, KOTOR, Xbox Live, Project Gotham 2, etc.) don't appeal to me all that much, and the handful that I am interested in (Panzer Dragoon Orta, Deathrow, maybe Fable, we'll see how Jade Empire turns out) aren't strong enough provocations to get me to buy the console.

Yeah, I can mod an Xbox and do tricks with it. I also have an Athlon 1300. What PC stuff, emulators, etc. can I run on an Xbox that I can't on my PC?

When the next generation of software comes along, I'll revise my opinions accordingly.

crossfire · 10-09-2004, 05:08 PM

I understood most of what you said, but in answer to your question about the games, are we forgetting Halo, Ninja Gaiden, KOTOR, Halo 2, Doom 3, and others. Well, to each his own.

10-08-2004, 06:47 PM	#1
crossfire The White Rapper Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 233	Xbox 2 Do you think Xbox 2 should come out, or are we fine with Xbox? I personally think we are fine with the first one.

10-09-2004, 12:18 AM	#7
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I stopped reading gaming trade mags because they have too many tempting ads for games and I haven't finished any of the ones I have already. I think that the PS3 is already in development. I'm a happy PS customer, so I'll probably get one if it's backward compatible to the PS1 and PS2. Despite the whoo hoo graphics on the Xbox, I'm still not impressed enough by it, or it's game library to want one in the house. One of my friends has one, and I have played it often enough to know that I'm much happier with the PlayStation family of products. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

10-08-2004, 07:25 PM	#2
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	That's not really how the business works. You're gonna be just fine with the Xbox... until the Xbox 2 comes out. Technology improves, playerbase stagnates. MS can't keep making money off you if you play the Xbox until you get bored with it and stop playing games on the beast. If that were a good business model, we would all be playng the Atari 2600.

10-08-2004, 08:12 PM	#3
crossfire The White Rapper Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 233	The question I posted was actually a question in the Official Xbox Magazine and since I wasn't able to answer, but had strong views, I thought I'd start up this forum.

10-08-2004, 08:16 PM	#4
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	Okay. So share your strong views.

10-08-2004, 09:03 PM	#5
crossfire The White Rapper Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 233	Well, in my honest opinion, I don't think they should release another xbox. PC's are wonderful, but they fall short when it comes to gaming. When you have a top notch computer, you can play any game, but one month behind, and you need to spend another x-amount of dollars updating your computer. Xbox has all the goods. Great game selection, and just like any other console game, games released for xbox were made for xbox, no better system, no worse. Now, if Xbox 2 is released, all the best games will come out on that system, and you will have to spend another 3-400 dollars or whatever buying it when there is already a great system out. Xbox has been gradually lowering its price in order to have the best gaming experience affordable to a greater audience. When Xbox 2 comes out, it will be another year before that reduces its price and then the next big gaming system will be coming out. I just think they should keep xbox around for a little bit longer without upgrading to xbox 2.

10-08-2004, 09:58 PM	#6
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	But it's just a continuation of the cycle. Microsoft could say "Yeah, the Xbox kicks ass, so we're just gonna stick with that", but you can be damned sure Sony is still gonna release the PS3, with its upgraded hardware. Microsoft cannot, on it's best day, compete with Sony by doing that. No matter how good the Xbox looks now, it's going to be obsolete eventually. Technology doesn't stop when mankind has reached the pinnacle of "a pretty decent gaming system". I really like my Saturn (the car. I'm making an analogy. A bad one.), and I bet most Saturn owners like their Saturns. But that doesn't mean Saturn is just gonna stop making cars. The Xbox is a nice system. MS can do a lot to make it an even nicer system. And people will buy it. Make Xbox 2, make a pile of money; Don't make Xbox 2, don't make that pile of money. That's a pretty simple decision to make.

10-09-2004, 10:13 AM	#8
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	If you asked me to explain why I like the Xbox over the PS2, the only even remotely compelling reason is the graphics. I just cannot explain it further than that. But yeah, Sony nailed it with backwards compatibility. I cannot imagine that they wouldn't do the same with the PS3 and MS would be fucking nuts not to do it with the Xbox 2.

10-09-2004, 10:27 AM	#9
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Great game selection, and just like any other console game, games released for xbox were made for xbox, no better system, no worse. You're actually wrong about that. Most games have to sell on more than one platform to be profitable, and that means simultaneously developing for the different requirements of at least two if not three consoles. In an ideal world that would mean three different games that each live up to their maximum potential on their respective machines; in reality you usually end up with one game that can be tweaked to work on all three. Now granted, they've been thoroughly tested on the Xbox, so you're not going to have the problem of "not enough memory" or whatever to run a certain game. But just because it's released on the Xbox doesn't mean it wasn't designed for a worse system. Xbox has been gradually lowering its price in order to have the best gaming experience affordable to a greater audience. Microsoft has been gradually lowering its Xbox price because Sony's always kicked their ass in the sales department. Believe me, it has absolutely nothing to do with some altruistic goal of giving the best game experience to everyone who wants it. Incidentally, the reason Sony's been kicking Microsoft's ass is because their PS2 came out over a year before the Xbox. Microsoft is hoping to reverse that on this next round of consoles, that's why they're desperate to get the Xbox 2 out faster than the PS3.

10-09-2004, 11:34 AM	#10
crossfire The White Rapper Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 233	[quote=Clodfobble]You're actually wrong about that. Most games have to sell on more than one platform to be profitable, and that means simultaneously developing for the different requirements of at least two if not three consoles. In an ideal world that would mean three different games that each live up to their maximum potential on their respective machines; in reality you usually end up with one game that can be tweaked to work on all three. Then what about the games that say ONLY ON XBOX? I get your point about the fact that its competition the reason that xbox lowered its price, but some sub-reason is that they wanted the best game console to be affordable to more people. Even if that wasn't the main plan, that's what happened.

10-09-2004, 12:13 PM	#13
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	Don't be like that, Crossfire. We're all friends here, mostly.

10-09-2004, 05:08 PM	#15
crossfire The White Rapper Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 233	I understood most of what you said, but in answer to your question about the games, are we forgetting Halo, Ninja Gaiden, KOTOR, Halo 2, Doom 3, and others. Well, to each his own.

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