Pagan curiosity

kerosene · 04-24-2005, 12:52 PM

My fiancee and I have been living out here in the middle of KS for about 2 weeks, now. We are absolutely loving it. We have all the freedom in the world to just be ourselves and enjoy the nature around us. Now that we have been away from the city for a little bit, we are both feeling a connection to something...like we are part of this huge stream of energy. We are in search for an ability to understand this energy.

We have both been gravitating toward this idea of Paganism. We are starting to feel like this may be our spiritual paths, but we don't have a thorough understanding of the different types of Paganism that exist.

I know there are several Pagans on this board and would like some insight about different Pagan beliefs. If you would be willing to give me some ideas on different paths to explore through Pagan beliefs, it might help me to determine what would be most natural for me and he might discover what is most natural for him.

We were both raised in fundie families, but both of us realized a long time ago that those paths weren't for us. We just didn't have the ability to block our intellectual minds enough to have that kind of faith.

Any suggestions for reading, or other advice are welcome. Thanks.

Troubleshooter · 04-24-2005, 02:14 PM

Just to beat the pagans to the punch, the connection you're experiencing may just be that since you're living away from all of the civilization that you are feeling a connection to the environment more in line with what we are designed to live in. There's a lot to be said for the dissonance being brought on by too intense of a civilized environment.

All I'm saying is to not overdo the mystical connection, it could just be that you are feeling more in tune with what would be considered closer to your (our) natural environment.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm a non-theist. I'm not saying there isn't a mystical connection, but Occam's Razor...

Undertoad · 04-24-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

since you're living away from all of the civilization that you are feeling a connection to the environment more in line with what we are designed to live in

But, ah, that doesn't mean you should give up the Internet or anything!

kerosene · 04-24-2005, 03:02 PM

To give up the internet would be to give up the cellar! I could NEVER do that.

Yes, I know I am not designed to live in the rat race. I also realize that the way I feel connected to my environment right now is probably more the way it should be. It makes sense, now, why I never felt that I belonged in a place. Here, I feel that belonging. That being said, I would not rule out the possibility that there is some etheric force in nature until I have a more thorough understanding about the beliefs that are already out there. Right now, all I have are my feelings, which are strong enough, but I have yet to make sense of them. I am hoping, now that I can focus more clearly, to figure out what I want to believe based on my own version of logic and my feelings inside. Maybe there are others out there like me.

Anyway, thanks for the perspective.

OnyxCougar · 04-24-2005, 04:32 PM

What if a faith in God did not equal the fundie line of crap you've been fed all your lives?

kerosene · 04-24-2005, 05:13 PM

that isn't a bad thought, OC.

I would like to say I have a belief that God exists. But, I am not so sure I can really put stock in the idea that there is one patriarchal god. It doesn't feel right to me. That may be the effects of the fundie crap I was steeped in all my life talking. I have to do some serious soul searching, I suppose. I am prepared for that, as I have been searching for a long time (at least 10 years or so) but, I have not been able to concentrate on it, like I can now.

Troubleshooter · 04-24-2005, 05:34 PM

Ok, if you insist on assigning some sort of paradigm to your faith in an etheric entity why not just take the time simply explore your senses and experiences? Is there really any need to let someone else's lack of knowledge of your senses and experiences color what you feel?

There's no more guarantee that they are any more right than you are.

wolf · 04-24-2005, 05:37 PM

There is no one way to suggest that you proceed. Absolutely, continue to groove on the feeling of connection to the earth.

There are so many pathways to choose from, or that will choose you.

Start by reading their teaching stories. The old tales. The myths.

kerosene · 04-24-2005, 06:02 PM

TS: Of course there is no guarantee that someone else's beliefs are more right than mine. I am just looking for other ideas...channels through which to enjoy this new experience. Is there something wrong with wanting to relate these feelings to other people's experiences? It's not like I think I need to match myself up with a dogmatic system. I just want to share this with someone or feel that I can relate. After being basically spiritually void for so long, it feels good.

Wolf, thank you for the advice. I have been reading about ancient religions today, like Druidism and Wicca. If anything, it is nice to learn about these religions to get an idea of what they are.

Troubleshooter · 04-24-2005, 08:08 PM

Nothing explicitly wrong. I'm just saying that not everyone is going to necessarily have a similar or relatable experience. Some people can't have an experience without having to make it part of a group experience or seeking external validation.

Edit: This may be an entirely unique experience. Feel the power of you.

wolf · 04-24-2005, 08:23 PM

For the record: Wicca isn't ancient. It is, however, the most popular form of modern witchcraft. It's a very good starting point, though.

Elspode · 04-24-2005, 11:32 PM

I suppose it might be silly to point this out, but what Case describes is *exactly* the basis of the old religions. There *is* a different vibe about the wide open spaces. Our civilized, lived-indoor existences are not what we are all about as beings. The human species did not evolve inside of wooden boxes with plasma screen televisions. The species evolved in the trees, on the savannah. If you feel different when you are more "in the world", that's because...well...it *is* very, very different than the life lived in bustling civilization.

Pagan beliefs arose from those same feelings. The world is vast and seemingly all-encompassing. It is both frightening and beautiful. By attributing aspects of this boggling envrionment and the stimuli therein to various deities, entities and spirits, humans are attempting to better relate to all of it. There is nothing wrong with reverencing that which gives you sustenance, shelter...life itself. And for those who really, really *feel* what is there, the energies that flow through and around everything...it is the most logical way to go.

I can see a rock. I can be warmed by the sun. I can marvel at the stars. They're *there*. They're tangible. They aren't evanescent concepts designed to *separate* me from the 'lesser' entities. Rocks, trees and all the rest are the byproducts of the machinery of creation, the manifestation of pure energy made solid by some fortuitous happenstance of physics. We are made from the same stuff as the universe.

This is not very far from "made He each in His image" as far as I am concerned. Just a different way of telling the story. Just a different way of coming to grips with the universe.

There's a very big, very cool Pagan festival going on in Leavenworth County, KS (near the Missouri border) over Memorial Day weekend. There will be workshops from a dizzying array of different paths. There will be outdoor frolicking of all descriptions. There will be music, dance, drumming, giant bonfires from Hell, and several hundred Pagans reveling in their differences and their similarities.

You should come. There are worse starting places for the Pagan curious. That's how I got started (and I'm now the President of the organization that puts this festival on. Come celebrate the 20th anniversary with us!).

russotto · 04-25-2005, 09:28 AM

Be very careful about those which <a href="http://www.cthuugle.com/">choose YOU</a>

OnyxCougar · 04-25-2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

The human species did not evolve inside of wooden boxes with plasma screen televisions. The species evolved in the trees, on the savannah.

Even before I was Christian, I never believed that. Not all Wiccans or pagans do, case. It's ok to believe this is all random chance if you want, but listen to what nature is telling you. There *is* a watchmaker. Doesn't matter what his/her name is...you'll feel him/her when you're out there....

Happy Monkey · 04-25-2005, 12:19 PM

Well, the older Pagan religions think the Earth was made out of the body parts of sleeping or dead gods or monsters, and humans were formed from plants or clay, so all Pagans certainly don't believe in evolution.

04-24-2005, 12:52 PM	#1
kerosene Touring the facilities Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The plains of Colorado Posts: 3,476	Pagan curiosity My fiancee and I have been living out here in the middle of KS for about 2 weeks, now. We are absolutely loving it. We have all the freedom in the world to just be ourselves and enjoy the nature around us. Now that we have been away from the city for a little bit, we are both feeling a connection to something...like we are part of this huge stream of energy. We are in search for an ability to understand this energy. We have both been gravitating toward this idea of Paganism. We are starting to feel like this may be our spiritual paths, but we don't have a thorough understanding of the different types of Paganism that exist. I know there are several Pagans on this board and would like some insight about different Pagan beliefs. If you would be willing to give me some ideas on different paths to explore through Pagan beliefs, it might help me to determine what would be most natural for me and he might discover what is most natural for him. We were both raised in fundie families, but both of us realized a long time ago that those paths weren't for us. We just didn't have the ability to block our intellectual minds enough to have that kind of faith. Any suggestions for reading, or other advice are welcome. Thanks.

04-24-2005, 02:14 PM	#2
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	Just to beat the pagans to the punch, the connection you're experiencing may just be that since you're living away from all of the civilization that you are feeling a connection to the environment more in line with what we are designed to live in. There's a lot to be said for the dissonance being brought on by too intense of a civilized environment. All I'm saying is to not overdo the mystical connection, it could just be that you are feeling more in tune with what would be considered closer to your (our) natural environment. Edit: Just to clarify, I'm a non-theist. I'm not saying there isn't a mystical connection, but Occam's Razor... __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle Last edited by Troubleshooter; 04-24-2005 at 02:18 PM.

04-24-2005, 04:32 PM	#5
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	What if a faith in God did not equal the fundie line of crap you've been fed all your lives? __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

04-24-2005, 05:34 PM	#7
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	Ok, if you insist on assigning some sort of paradigm to your faith in an etheric entity why not just take the time simply explore your senses and experiences? Is there really any need to let someone else's lack of knowledge of your senses and experiences color what you feel? There's no more guarantee that they are any more right than you are. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

04-24-2005, 05:37 PM	#8
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	There is no one way to suggest that you proceed. Absolutely, continue to groove on the feeling of connection to the earth. There are so many pathways to choose from, or that will choose you. Start by reading their teaching stories. The old tales. The myths. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

04-24-2005, 03:02 PM	#4
kerosene Touring the facilities Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The plains of Colorado Posts: 3,476	To give up the internet would be to give up the cellar! I could NEVER do that. Yes, I know I am not designed to live in the rat race. I also realize that the way I feel connected to my environment right now is probably more the way it should be. It makes sense, now, why I never felt that I belonged in a place. Here, I feel that belonging. That being said, I would not rule out the possibility that there is some etheric force in nature until I have a more thorough understanding about the beliefs that are already out there. Right now, all I have are my feelings, which are strong enough, but I have yet to make sense of them. I am hoping, now that I can focus more clearly, to figure out what I want to believe based on my own version of logic and my feelings inside. Maybe there are others out there like me. Anyway, thanks for the perspective.

04-24-2005, 05:13 PM	#6
kerosene Touring the facilities Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The plains of Colorado Posts: 3,476	that isn't a bad thought, OC. I would like to say I have a belief that God exists. But, I am not so sure I can really put stock in the idea that there is one patriarchal god. It doesn't feel right to me. That may be the effects of the fundie crap I was steeped in all my life talking. I have to do some serious soul searching, I suppose. I am prepared for that, as I have been searching for a long time (at least 10 years or so) but, I have not been able to concentrate on it, like I can now.

04-24-2005, 06:02 PM	#9
kerosene Touring the facilities Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The plains of Colorado Posts: 3,476	TS: Of course there is no guarantee that someone else's beliefs are more right than mine. I am just looking for other ideas...channels through which to enjoy this new experience. Is there something wrong with wanting to relate these feelings to other people's experiences? It's not like I think I need to match myself up with a dogmatic system. I just want to share this with someone or feel that I can relate. After being basically spiritually void for so long, it feels good. Wolf, thank you for the advice. I have been reading about ancient religions today, like Druidism and Wicca. If anything, it is nice to learn about these religions to get an idea of what they are.

04-24-2005, 08:08 PM	#10
Troubleshooter The urban Jane Goodall Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 3,012	Nothing explicitly wrong. I'm just saying that not everyone is going to necessarily have a similar or relatable experience. Some people can't have an experience without having to make it part of a group experience or seeking external validation. Edit: This may be an entirely unique experience. Feel the power of you. __________________ I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle

04-24-2005, 08:23 PM	#11
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	For the record: Wicca isn't ancient. It is, however, the most popular form of modern witchcraft. It's a very good starting point, though. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

04-24-2005, 11:32 PM	#12
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I suppose it might be silly to point this out, but what Case describes is exactly the basis of the old religions. There is a different vibe about the wide open spaces. Our civilized, lived-indoor existences are not what we are all about as beings. The human species did not evolve inside of wooden boxes with plasma screen televisions. The species evolved in the trees, on the savannah. If you feel different when you are more "in the world", that's because...well...it is very, very different than the life lived in bustling civilization. Pagan beliefs arose from those same feelings. The world is vast and seemingly all-encompassing. It is both frightening and beautiful. By attributing aspects of this boggling envrionment and the stimuli therein to various deities, entities and spirits, humans are attempting to better relate to all of it. There is nothing wrong with reverencing that which gives you sustenance, shelter...life itself. And for those who really, really feel what is there, the energies that flow through and around everything...it is the most logical way to go. I can see a rock. I can be warmed by the sun. I can marvel at the stars. They're there. They're tangible. They aren't evanescent concepts designed to separate me from the 'lesser' entities. Rocks, trees and all the rest are the byproducts of the machinery of creation, the manifestation of pure energy made solid by some fortuitous happenstance of physics. We are made from the same stuff as the universe. This is not very far from "made He each in His image" as far as I am concerned. Just a different way of telling the story. Just a different way of coming to grips with the universe. There's a very big, very cool Pagan festival going on in Leavenworth County, KS (near the Missouri border) over Memorial Day weekend. There will be workshops from a dizzying array of different paths. There will be outdoor frolicking of all descriptions. There will be music, dance, drumming, giant bonfires from Hell, and several hundred Pagans reveling in their differences and their similarities. You should come. There are worse starting places for the Pagan curious. That's how I got started (and I'm now the President of the organization that puts this festival on. Come celebrate the 20th anniversary with us!). __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog Last edited by Elspode; 04-24-2005 at 11:43 PM.

04-25-2005, 09:28 AM	#13
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Be very careful about those which <a href="http://www.cthuugle.com/">choose YOU</a>

04-25-2005, 12:19 PM	#15
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Well, the older Pagan religions think the Earth was made out of the body parts of sleeping or dead gods or monsters, and humans were formed from plants or clay, so all Pagans certainly don't believe in evolution. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

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