Are we better off now?

[xoxoxoBruce]

I had the great pleasure of living in pre-LBJ America. The America that ended in Dallas in 1963. Happy days, literally.
Sure, the CIA was giving us a black eye, especially in South America. And our government was doing shady things around the world, but "we the people" generally didn't know it. If there was a blurb in the paper, most people didn't understand it's ramifications. Ike's farewell address was loaded with dire and prophetic warnings, and we said "bye-bye Ike, have a nice retirement", duh.
Then came 60 minutes, CNN, Fox, Internet and a slew of other entities to explain, 8 ways to sunday, what everything and anything that ever, does or could happen, means. The president couldn't even get a blow job without a national crisis. The politicians have certainly earned this scrutiny, Nixon being the prime example.
But the question is are we better off now? Or have we come to the point where everything is overanalyzed and spun to be so far from reality, we know nothing. Are we inundated with so much detail, that the public is numb?

[Undertoad]

I had the pleasure of being born the same week that you say America ended, so it's really hard to say. All I can think, though, is that I would not prefer to live in the world that was described to me as 1963.

Good: we didn't give a crap if the President objectified women
Bad: we didn't give a crap if women were objectified, period

Good: we had a more unified society because that was what WW2 encouraged
Bad: "unified" also means "highly conformist", which means we're happy with only 3 channels and white males run everything and your umbrella must be black

Good: people seemed to be more responsible, with a sense of civic duty and the importance of what they did
Bad: somehow this led to the abandonment of the cities so what good was it?

[SteveDallas]

Originally posted by Undertoad

Bad: somehow this led to the abandonment of the cities so what good was it?

How is the abandonment of the cities bad? Isn't that just the Invisible Hand at work?

[be-bop]

like Bruce Ive been around awhile and can assure you that IMO things are very much worse today.Late 50's to the 60's and even early 70's there seemed to be an optimisim then it all went to hell in a handbasket,Many reasons I suppose 70's Oil crisis, strikes.Mass unemployment and 18 years of Margaret Thatcher and 8 years was it of Ronald Raygun(pun intended).Don't have experience of what you guys went through over there but it was fucking grim over here.
But is'nt 60 mins cnn fox etc etc etc what they call choice!!!!!
Cable tv/satellite its complete overkill,you can pick up thousands of channels on the box but there's still naff all to watch,thats why there are people like us nattering away on message boards chatlines blogs etc because we are looking for something better?
My opinion of politicians has been posted before Fuck Em, completely ignore the bastards its all ego with them.
If it was'nt why is that independant democrat running over there which will split the vote,if he really wanted rid of Bush he would'nt risk splitting the vote..EGO!
Politicians want the public to be numb and cynical lets them get on with watever grubby business is on their agenda,they are going to do it anyway because the lie is that the vote changes things,it does'nt..

[jaguar]

There certainly seems to be a massive and noticeable increase in the loss of fair in representative democracy across the western world. People simply expect politicians to lie outright and get away with it and it's become so common they don't really care anymore.

People have always been cynical but there seems to be a concerted thread tat this is a more serious shift attracting some interesting commentary. At the moment I'm living in Switzerland which has a strong participatory democratic system - referendums on average every 2 weeks with an average of around 40% turning out. It also appears to have some of the best quality media in the world. I don't know what makes it so different but it sure is. there was an article in the Economist a week or two ago about Switzerland, noting that there was a strong correlation between people being able to influence the political system and happiness, worth a read.

[blue]

I always imagined the 50's would have been a great time to grow up, post war, upbeat but still simple. A time when you could just walk in somewhere and get a job if you were a hard worker, couple channels to watch on a little round B&W TV, cruising in the cool cars with friends, girls in those little skirt & sock & ponytail numbers.

I like gadgets and tech, but damn we have every modern convenience, why are we busier than fucking ever?! I hate the pace & noise of this era. Of being available 24/7 via cell/laptop/pager. Voice mail systems, and tax forms that only CPAs can really understand. Waste, especially in all the packaging for the individually sliced, personal sized, convenient foods. The disposable mindset. Making more money than I had a right to expect, but never feeling secure.

I don't think we're bad off really, but I sure don't think we are better off.

Anyone watch Frontier House on PBS? That was a cool show. I'd love to try that...except for the whole wondering if you will survive winter thing.

[Beestie]

Are we better off now? I'll speak for myself and say definitely! The advances in medicine and technology alone are enough for me not to want to go back to Mayberry (despite the high esteem in which I hold wherever it was that Rockwell painted).

Everyone is different but I can never close a door once I have a glimpse of what's on the other side (good or bad). I can always move to a small town if I want a taste of the old days but for now, I want it all.

I'm not really sure things are more complicated now its just that folks who disagree with the "conventional" view have much more footing than they used to. In other words, I think things were simpler "back then" not because they really were but because pluralism at the societal level was unmercifully repressed and because it was easier to isolate a collective societal model like a Mayberry where the conventional wisdom is seldom challenged.

[jaguar]

girls in those little skirt & sock & ponytail numbers.

Dude, you don't know enough japanese chicks or go to enough raves clearly.

That aside it's a different type of era, whether it's better I'm not sure. I grew up with it, it's my world and I enjoy the pace and chaos, I've embraced the unpredictability, the lack of security, things go up and down you've just gotta ride the waves.

I *love* the way I can, at a whim, fly out of the country to a remote destination, jack onto a wifi hub in the airport, global roaming kicks on the phone and suddenly I'm reconnected to all my primary vectors of communication in under 5 minutes. I love the way I can dig up information on almost any topic in a similar amount of time, research individuals, companies, topics, anything. I love the way I can buy fair trade coffee, sushi, iranian safron and order pizza over the web. Good with the bad I guess. I also like the way my phone has an off switch.

Sometimes I think the answer to freedom and happiness in the modern age is not to work for a normal company, they all bite ass, just to varying degrees. If you're good enough they come to you, then it's a fun game.

[SteveDallas]

Originally posted by blue58
girls in those little skirt & sock & ponytail numbers.

So what you're saying is the lowrider jeans/exposed thong/belly button-exposing shirt look doesn't do it for you?

Anyway there's no doubt I'm definitely better off in one very specific way: My vision is so bad that I'm not sure it would have been correctable with techniques available in the 50s.

I'm tempted to say that the biggest thing wrong with the USA is we're TOO successful. We haven't had any serious challenge lately to make us come together and smack it down as a nation. So we're content to watch "The Simple Life 2: Paris & Nicole Visit Phoenixville" instead of really paying attention to what's going on.

[xoxoxoBruce]

So we're content to watch "The Simple Life 2: Paris & Nicole Visit Phoenixville" instead of really paying attention to what's going on.

I wonder if this is backlash. We are inundated with news that has been spun, polished, fluffed and massaged for your enjoyment. With all the media I mentioned in the original post, it's easier to get the news but so much harder to get the truth

[jaguar]

The line between entertainment and news is non-existant on TV. Last time i watched tv i had about 1 article on politics, some soundbites from people shooting at each other somewhere and about 14 human interest stories and expose's on the local pulmber doing shoddy work and overchanging people.

The best news to be found is in financial papers (Economist, Financial Time etc). It can be found, and quite easily, but for a cost and it requires people to - god forbid, have a grip on the world they live in and patience to understand complex issues.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Or wait for TW to explain it to us.

[jaguar]

It's amazing how he can turn a quite right-wing bent (well in some ways that's unfair, they merely express an economic opinion, which is not always right wing and can on occasion be interpreted as fairly left wing, if it's good for the economy, the economist will like it, politics be damned) rag into a left wing rant. Amazing skill.

[wolf]

Originally posted by Undertoad
Bad: we didn't give a crap if women were objectified, period

I don't mind being objectified all that much, really.

Being recognized for one's greatness and uniqueness is sorely missed ...

[Troubleshooter]

Technologically? Yes.

Socially? No.

People have abandoned critical thought and inquiry to the banal pablum that is fed to them every day. There is more information and increased access to that information.