Now that you have Spent your Surplus Check

[tw]

Some will claim I am as pessimistic as Jaguar. However the pessimism is focused only on those who fear to innovate - fear to think long term - fear to advance mankind - fear to trust the little people to do what is best for the little people. Who are these right wing religious extremists?

One recent example of a minority who would impose their morality on everyone else. They again stifle innovation, research, and long term planning - George Jr's stem cell interference - step one in a long term plan to advance right wing interference in all American life.

George Jr and his moralists are excellent at lying by half truths. After all, did George Jr not campaign as a pragmatist when in reality he only worships religous extremist intolerance? In a crowd of extremists, George Jr is a moderate. In the world, he is what all intolerant extremists are - liars.

He told us we could pay down the debt and still provide a tax rebate. Your $300 surplus is in the mail (he even wasted taxpayer money to report the classic line - the check's in the mail). It is small change - will not even pay 1 month rent. But then it has already changed the government back into Reaganomics - high debt spending. From the Economist of 14 Aug 2001, we have another example of what happens when extremists try to save us from ourselves:

""The reversal was startling. In the spring, the Treasury said that it expected to retire $57 billion of public debt between June and September making this the umpteenth quarter of debt repayment. Now, the Treasury says, it will have to borrow $51 billion, making this the largest quarter for Federal borrowing since the start of 1996. The $108 billion difference between the two numbers is one of the largest plunges in the governments fiscal position even recorded.
In truth, this is just one quarter of the year, and the budget for the year as a whole is still likely to be in surplus. The administration can point to three extenuating circumstances for the quarter's slide. ... What Mr Bush cannot do [although he still does] is continue to claim that America can have a tax cut, a budget surplus, and big new spending programs all together. The official figure will show a surplus of $160 billion; but if you remove the surpluses for Social Security and Medicare, which the administration is not suppose to touch, it will almost certainly be in deficit. Revealingly, officials now call the Medicare surplus an accounting phenomenon.""

Now lets remember that Bush still has not started his big spending plans for a military buildup, another plan for Star Wars Mark X while terminating ABM and other treaties that helped defuse and end the cold war. Bush is still limited in spending due to a frugal Clinton administration. But there is the expected recession that always follows 'Tax Cuts to stimulate the economy'. How will he deal with that predictable phenomenon.

This is what happens when extremists decide to save us from our rights, put guns in the hands of those right wing extremists who desire 150mm howisters, harm the society by saving us from drugs while taking brides and protecting drug pushers - cigarette companies, and calls something that looks and acts like mold as a human life to be worshipped rather than advanced and studied.

Previously, George Jr got some here to think that a tax cut was a good thing - the facts be damned then and the facts made obvious now. Did anyone see his interview with the lady ABC News reporter? His entire stem cell decision was made from a single page NIH summary which he understood none of it. In the telecast, he could not answer any questions on his decision and he kept referring to the NIH report - because he knew nothing about facts. He fears and remains ignorant of science that might challenge extremist right wing religious beliefs. No wonder he still has no science advisors on his staff and probably never will. But he did understand that extremists could get a little more of 'protecting us from ourselves'.

The man is a right wing extremist with no knowledge of facts while blindly worshipping the principals of right wing religious extremism. When will he call for the castration of all homosexuals to end the spread of Aids? That is logical if you are a right wing religious extremist? That can be expected from anyone who says, "A man who marries outside of his religious inherits the devil for a father-in-law."

Curious that even a promiscuious man permits and encourages innovation - protects the principals of libertarians - promotes tolerance - lets an economy propser and grow. No wonder George Jr so hates CA. They innovate. They are tolerant. They advance mankind at the expense of right wing fears.

Well so much for the surplus, because we have the man we wanted and have the tax cut that some were even duped into thinking is a good thing. What is more stupid than a tax cut? A missile defense from a threat that will not exist, but that can recreate a cold war - that will create how much more poverty - that will be created at the expense of how much American economic growth? That is the problem with those who would protect us from ourselves. One of their greatest achievements was the 30 years war - that killed more people than the Black Plague - or anything else most destructive.

[Hubris Boy]

Well... that certainly is a LOT of words. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, there's no correlation between quantity and quality.

I'm not really sure what TW is trying to say, but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't belong HERE. I thought this section was for news and current events. There really isn't any news here... this is just a rant. Rants are great, but shouldn't they go in the 'everything else' category? Or, maybe we could get Tony to create a new "Rants-only" forum?

And while we're on the subject, as rants go, this is an especially poorly-written example. Believe it or not, I actually read what TW has written (painful though it was) twice, and I STILL can't figure out what the point is! It's sort of like Gertrude Stein's famous quote about Oakland, CA: "...when you get there, there isn't any there there." Although he doesn't burden us with tedious things like facts or sources, TW seems to be upset about quite a lot:

• Religious people
  Proposed government restrictions on stem cell research
  Missile defense
  History
  Government revenue and spending forecasts
  George Bush
  right wing religious extremists
  right wing interference
  religous extremist intolerance
  extremists
  intolerant extremists
  extremists
  right wing extremists
  extremist right wing religious beliefs
  extremists
  right wing extremist
  right wing religious extremism
  right wing religious extremist
  right wing

TW also seems to have a morbid fear of his thesaurus.

[jaguar]

*sighs*...hubris boy....
Before you turned up here, tw posted a large number of long, detailed, well thought out posts abotu a wide range of subjects. While i think you have a point *partly* here your still out of line.

Most of the stuff in there is currant events - tax rebate, stem cell research etc, some of the linking is a bit weak but your typcial arrogant patronising style i've come to loathe is still not really valid, i get the feeling you post on slashdot alot.

Believe it or not, I actually read what TW has written (painful though it was) twice, and I STILL can't figure out what the point is!

good work - you bothered to read somthing before you bitched about it!

The point as i see it ain't new - that bush it the nadir of capatilisim and right wing in government. God bless america becuase noone else will.

Capatilist economies/societies rely on constant expansion, when that slows down they turn on themselves, destroying themselves in the process - this is what we are starting to see...

Least i'm going to europe in a year or so - they're still sane there.



oh and by the way writing the same 4 words in every possible combination dosen't make your point and stronger

[Hubris Boy]

*giggles*...Jaguar...

Originally posted by jaguar
oh and by the way writing the same 4 words in every possible combination dosen't make your point and stronger

All I did was cut-and-paste from the original post. That was my point... glad you agree!

Originally posted by jaguar good work - you bothered to read somthing before you bitched about it!

If you had bothered to read before bitching, you might have caught that.

Well... at least he spells better than you do.

[tw]

Originally posted by Hubris Boy
Well... that certainly is a LOT of words. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, there's no correlation between quantity and quality.

I'm not really sure what TW is trying to say, but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't belong HERE.

For George Bush and others who cannot be bothered to understand supporting facts and examples, this is the abridged post:

That is the problem with those who would protect us from ourselves. One of their greatest achievements was the 30 years war - that killed more people than the Black Plague - or anything else most destructive.

'Their' sentences are always located at the end.

For others, provided are many reasons and examples of what happens when religious right extremists find it necessary to protect us from ourselves - including the newly discovered federal deficit and the now mythical surplus.

[jaguar]

*sighs* i am torn - one hand tw you have written far better pieces here and it does get a bit incoherent towards the end. On the other hand hubris your patronising tone and nitpicking attacks are really, really starting annoying the shit out of me. Try typing your posts between classes without the time to correct properly either spelling or more often, typos and see what your posts look like - sure its not the best defense but you really are sinking low with that one(hell look at my title on the sidebar). Sure its not exactly go the writing flow and language of Jean Cocteau(currant favorite) but there is a pretty clear point or series of points in there.

You obviously take great pleasure in annoying people - bullied as a kid?, social misfit?, just another person who when online seems to think relative anonymity is a good excuse to be a little shit?
Maybe rebut some of the points instead of or as well as just attacking the language if you don't like it. Or would that require more than a minute worth of thought? The only time you've displayed that was in the palastinian lady getting kicked thread which was stop on, why not more of those and less of this?

[elSicomoro]

tw is the resident soliloquist, although he has been quiet as of late...I see he is stirring again though. tw's speeches can be rather long at times, but I can appreciate what he writes, even if I don't agree with it. I particularly enjoy reading his opinions on Israel.

Speaking of, what say you tw on the current situation?

Jag, Europe has us beat on some things, such as overall civility...that doesn't mean they're sane though. From what I've seen, it's no better than here--racial riots in Britain, chefs freaking out over food taxes in France, racial attacks in Germany, the Balkans, frequent government changes in Italy, excessive taxes in Scandanavia, the Basque situation. In the end, I'd say it all evens out.

Out of curiosity though, given your current location, have you been beyond Australia and Asia? Australia just seems so far away from everything else.

[jaguar]

I find the most ironic thing about America is that people fled to there to escape religious persecution...
But anyway - syc, while you do have a good point, (particularly the race riots - highly disturbing) thing key things I see, actually standing up to big business (Honeywell/GE merger, blocking some GE trials), limiting work hours etc...The rejection of the right wing nadir of capitalist society (nadir..my fav word atm.....) while the US of A sinks deeper and deeper...
I would live in new york, and obviosly i'd visit Philadelphia but apart from that

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by jaguar
I find the most ironic thing about America is that people fled to there to escape religious persecution...

While the hard right tries to impose their religious value system upon Americans, it the end, separation of church and state will always prevail. Too much has change for American society to go back to prudent ideals.

As a side note, although I am guilty of it too, I get so sick of people who talk about the good old days. I don't think the good old days were particularly that great--everything that happens now happened then, only it was behind closed doors.

The US will only go so far in the whole Dubya scheme of things. An economy seems to make or break an administration...let's see where the economy goes over the next couple of years.

I would live in new york, and obviosly i'd visit Philadelphia but apart from that

New York--many love it, and it's practically the center of the world as we know it. I've only been through it a few times, but I could never live there...8 million people crammed into such a small space. Make Philadelphia seem spacious...heh.

I firmly believe that the 2 most underrated cities in the US are Philadelphia and Baltimore.

[jaguar]

New York--many love it, and it's practically the center of the world as we know it. I've only been through it a few times, but I could never live there...8 million people crammed into such a small space.

Suits me fine =)
I"m a hardcore urbanite....
Try Ho Chi Minh city, similar size, 10million, andmsot of them would be considered well and truely belwo the poverty line in the US, 4million moterbikes...

[Hubris Boy]

Hubris Boy comes bounding down the Cellar steps with a grin on his face and a twinkle in his eye, much refreshed after a surprise 3-day excursion to beautiful Newport News, VA., courtesy of his employer

Originally posted by Jaguar
Try typing between classes without the time to correct properly either spelling or more often, typos and see what your posts look like

Waaaaaah. Don't post between classes, then. Wait until you have time to do it properly. Reading one of your posts, Jag, is like listening to a radio filled with static. Your style tells me that you're either too stupid or too lazy to write a proper sentence. One is merely pathetic. The other is breathtakingly inconsiderate. Take your pick.

Maybe rebut some of the points instead of or as well as just attacking the language if you don't like it.

Most of my comments are editorial in nature. I seldom attack anyone for posting an idea. (Unless it's REAAAALLY stupid, like asking me to believe that a western company hires the 16 year-old children of its employees and trains them to carry automatic weapons around the Cambodian countryside.)

I gladly would have rebutted facts in this post, had I been able to find any. My problem with this particular post was, that after wading through it, it didn't SAY anything. It was the literary equivalent of a two year-old throwing himself on the floor and having a tantrum.

I responded appropriately. I snatched the two year-old up off the floor and gave him a good swat.

Or would that require more than a minute worth of thought?

Bite me.

I always think about my posts before I send them. That's why I don't post as much as you. You may not LIKE what I have to say. You may not AGREE with what I have to say. But surely even you must concede that anything I write is well thought-out, properly spelled, and gramatically correct.

That's all I ask of anyone. Don't foul the air with gibberish.

[Hubris Boy]

Originally posted by tw
That is the problem with those who would protect us from ourselves. One of their greatest achievements was the 30 years war - that killed more people than the Black Plague - or anything else most destructive.

What on EARTH are you babbling about? Are you trying to suggest that Republicans were somehow responsible for the Thirty Years War? Or that modern-day conservatives are the ideological descendants of the Habsburgs?

WHAT does the Thirty Years War have to do with the abridgement of individual rights by the government in 21st century America? Or about the abridgement of individual rights by ANY government in ANY country in ANY century? Do you even know what the Thirty Years War was about? It was about a lot of things... but the "Rights of Man" certainly weren't on the list of any of the participants. Locke, Rousseau, Paine and the rest of "that crowd" were still over a century away.

BTW- I also take issue with your assertion the the Thirty Years War killed more people than the bubonic plague epidemic that swept Europe in the mid-14th century.

Some experts reckon that the mortality rate for the "Black Death" was as high as 50% in some densely-populated areas of Europe, and that total deaths may have been as high as 38 million. (That's just in Europe, of course. It killed millions and millions more as it passed through Asia and the Indian subcontinent on its way to the West.)

For the Thirty Years War, on the other hand, I've never seen any casualty estimates that exceeded 8 million.

[jaguar]

stingsting, i might jsut point out that secnet is not a western company, and does not operate in the west. If they did they'd probably have alot less touble finding relaible engineers, which is why i was doing what i did. but i'm obviously hitting my head against a brick wall on that one so....

Waaaaaah. Don't post between classes, then. Wait until you have time to do it properly. Reading one of your posts, Jag, is like listening to a radio filled with static. Your style tells me that you're either too stupid or too lazy to write a proper sentence. One is merely pathetic. The other is breathtakingly inconsiderate. Take your pick.

Ok, well, lets lok at my average day.
6:30, try toget up
6:55, get up
7:30, leave house
8:30, get to school
12:00, lunch, freinds, food, extra classes, debating, etc
4:00, get home - homeowrk
8:00 - dinner
10-4am(vairies wildly) homework

Not much spare time in there, weekends ain't much better. My other pisspoor excuse is i'm still very fucked in the head (for lack of a more equolent term) after walking away from a 9 month relationship.... I'm typing this post at 11 on a sat night after getting home from a party.

Most of my comments are editorial in nature.

Umm most of the posts i've seen have been just general comments, not realy editorial (don't know what papers you read but i sure ain't seen no columns baout beheading cats recently) apart from the palastinian woman getting kicked thread. Ill concede defeat on this thread, you do have a point i was just in a shitty mood. If one of the topics i have to do endless persuasive essays on comes up ill post that - slightly higher standard of language and structure i'd say.

But surely even you must concede that anything I write is well thought-out, properly spelled, and gramatically correct.

Apart from the inflamatory stuff i spose =P

ah shit ill finish this later