Observing the Leonids

Griff · 11-18-2002, 06:44 PM

Apparently, the best meteor shower for decades can be viewed tomorrow morning. Wake the kids up drag em outa bed and make them cranky for their teachers.

from Sky and Telescope-

Anyone can plan to go out and look for the strong return of the Leonid meteor shower expected for the early morning hours of Tuesday, November 19th. A very bright Moon will be lighting up the night, but even so, many meteors may show through the moonlit sky. Here are the best predicted times to watch:
In the Eastern time zone, from 5 to 6 a.m. Tuesday or just before dawn, whichever comes first at your site. (You can find when morning twilight begins by entering your location into our almanac.) Also, skywatchers in the northeastern U.S. and Atlantic Canada can try looking for a possible earlier, lesser wave of meteor activity from about 11:30 p.m. to 12:30 a.m. EST or AST.

Central time zone: From 4 to 5 a.m. Tuesday

Mountain time zone: From 3 to 4 a.m. Tuesday

Pacific time zone: From 2 to 3 a.m. Tuesday

warch · 11-19-2002, 12:31 PM

Leonids! Hey, that reminds me- Happy B day Toad! (if a bit late). I offer a retroactive toast to the stars.

Last year's show was great from the edge of a corn field, on the hood of my car at 5:00 AM, but this year's moon is really bright and its way colder to sit out. Maybe just replace the coffee with hot rum?

Griff · 11-19-2002, 12:42 PM

We were socked right in with clouds here, bummer. As compensation, we did get a great sunrise and we spotted a ring neck pheasant working his way through the brush below the house. We checked the cloud cover before waking up the units so there won't be any collateral damage at school today.

Oh Oh Toad Day belated man.

Undertoad · 11-19-2002, 12:44 PM

Thanks!

I took a look last night at 12:30 (supposed to be the first peak in the east), and couldn't see anything due to the big ol' honking full moon.

russotto · 11-19-2002, 02:32 PM

Best viewing was about at 5:45am where I am -- the clouds finally thinned (some of the brighter ones had been showing through earlier). By 6am there was too much light from the impending dawn. (ha, it's not every day I get to use "impending dawn" in a sentence)

They really covered a fairly large area of the sky, all the way from near-zenith to near the horizon, and maybe a 20 degree arc horizontally. But there weren't the advertised "hundreds per hour", possibly because of the cloud cover hiding the dimmer ones.

Better than most of the supposed spectacular shows, all of which have been a big zero for a number of years.

perth · 11-19-2002, 05:26 PM

when i went to bed last night, the sky was clear. set my alarm for 3:30 and when it went off, the sky was too clouded to see anything. when i woke up, lo and behold, the skies are clear. goddammit. if anyone got any good shots, post em.

~james

BrianR · 11-19-2002, 09:31 PM

I saw a few last night.

But, I saw something else that I'm not sure about.

What I saw was a satellite...probably a ComSat in low Earth Orbit, leaving a contrail low near the horizon. This was NOT a jet (too high/fast) or a UFO (no rednecks). What did I see? Is it possible for a satellite to leave a contrail? I wouldn't think so as contrails mean inside the atmosphere, don't they? Maggie? Any opinions here? You probably know more about sats than anyone here.

Brian

Urbane Guerrilla · 11-20-2002, 02:25 AM

I caught a few, anyway, observing between about 0215 and 0340 PST. They were much washed out by the bright full moon; the sky was so light I could pick up on a floater in the view field of my left eye. I didn't try any magnitude estimates, but did note trails lasting up to 2, 2.5 secs.

Next month, the Geminids. 14th December; be there or be square!

russotto · 11-20-2002, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianR
I saw a few last night.

But, I saw something else that I'm not sure about.

What I saw was a satellite...probably a ComSat in low Earth Orbit, leaving a contrail low near the horizon. This was NOT a jet (too high/fast) or a
Brian

Sorry, you saw a jet. Any satellite that was in enough atmosphere to leave a contrail would be a meteor (i.e. it would burn up) in short order.

MaggieL · 11-20-2002, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianR
Is it possible for a satellite to leave a contrail? I wouldn't think so as contrails mean inside the atmosphere, don't they? Maggie? Any opinions here? You probably know more about sats than anyone here.

I really don't see how a satellite could leave a contrail. Estimating altitude by eye can be somewhere between difficult and impossible, especially at night. Pilots take evasive action to avoid a collision with Venus or Jupiter all the time, fernstance. And if something is much *lower* than you think it is, it will appear to be travelling much faster than it really is.

And by the way, I know who had a really good seat for the Leonids:

<blockquote>
By Miles Mann WF1F,
MAREX-NA (Manned Amateur Radio Experiment, North American Division)

On Monday evening the ISS crew enjoyed some of natures natural
fireworks. The Leonids Meteor shower was clearly visible to the ISS crew. The Space Station has a few windows, which the crew can use for observing. Unfortunately the windows do not always line up with the place you want to see. The ISS were able to see approximately 50-60 meteors during a 10-minute period. See the Amateur Radio email below.

http://skyandtelescope.com/observing...icle_719_1.asp

When I realized that this mission would extended into the time of the Leonids Meteor shower asked commander Valery Korzun, if he would like to some information on the Meteor shower. Of course, he was very interested in observing the Meteor shower for many reasons. So, I began a crash course in leaning all I could about the Leonid meteor shower and how to plot an observation theory for the International Space Station.
I would like to thank Alan MacRobert of Sky & Telescope for providing me with some good web links. With information from the web and some number crunching with two satellite tracking program (STSPLUS and InstaTrack),I was able to calculate a few good meteor observations time schedules.
I then sent the information to the International Space Station the day before the Leonid Meteor Shower, which peaked between the hours of 0300- 1200 UTC November 19, 2002.

[I received this message from the ISS commander Krozun a few hours before the meteor shower began.]

To : WF1F
>From : RS0ISS
Stat : PR
Posted : 00/00/00 00:07
To : WF1F
>From : RS0ISS
@ BBS :
xID :

Subject: LEONID

DEAR MILES, THANKS A LOT FOR INFO.
WE WILL BE NEAR WINDOWS AT THAT TIME.
IT'S VERY GOOD DIRECTION.
I'LL USE DICTAPHONE END FIRST MESSAGE I'LL SEND TO YOU.
THANKS MY FRIEND!.73.VALERY.

[This message was sent by the ISS commander during the Leonid meteor shower.]

Stat : PR
Posted : 02/11/19 08:42
To : WF1F
>From : RS0ISS
@ BBS :
xID :

Subject: LEONIDS
MILES,
YOU WAS [the] FIRST WHO SEND METEOR SHOWER'S DATA ON ISS.
THE CALCULATING WAS EXCELLENT.
WE HAVE NICE TIME TO OBSERVE LEONIDS ATTACK.
I CALCULATED ABOUT 50-60 METEORS FOR 7-10 MINUTES NOT TOO MUCH BUT WE
DIDN'T HAVE
GOOD VIEW THROUGH WINDOWS.
NO VIDEO, NO PICTURES IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO DO IT.
THANKS A LOT FOR COOPERATION!

73.VALERY.

CMD(B/H/J/K/KM/L/M/R/S/SB/SP/ST/SR/V/?)>
</blockquote>

BrianR · 11-20-2002, 02:46 PM

Apparantly what I saw WAS the Space Station.

The newspaper reported that at the time and place I saw the "thing" the ISS passed overhead.

There is NO way it was a jet...WAAAY too fast for that.

So I'm just hallucinating a contrail...that early is TOO early for these old bones anyway. I just happened to be awake.

Brian

"Curmudgeon In Training"

MaggieL · 11-20-2002, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianR
Apparantly what I saw WAS the Space Station...
So I'm just hallucinating a contrail...

ISS observed just after sunset or before sunrise when the ground is in darkness and the station in sunlight is an *extremely* bright object--the brightest in the sky--especially if the orientation of the solar panels is favorable for a specular reflection of sunlight to your position. As construction proceeds it will get brighter. Several amateur radio operators have had voice contact with the ISS crew while having the station in sight visually.

Given how bright ISS is, what seemed like a contrail might have been an afterimage.

Amateur astronomers with fairly ordinary equipment have been having fun enhancing images of ISS from the ground to the point where discrete structues on the station, including docked spacecraft are distinguishable.

Interesting relevant links:

http://www.btinternet.com/~mikejtyrrell/index.htm
http://freespace.virgin.net/philip.masding/index.htm
http://www.satcom.freeserve.co.uk/

wolf · 11-21-2002, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianR

So I'm just hallucinating a contrail...that early is TOO early for these old bones anyway. I just happened to be awake.

Brian

"Curmudgeon In Training"

Cut that crap out ... I'm OLDER than you, baby!!!

BrianR · 11-21-2002, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf

Cut that crap out ... I'm OLDER than you, baby!!!

Hi mom!

Brian

PS I suppose you don't do email while your recuperating?

wolf · 11-21-2002, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianR

Hi mom!

Brian

PS I suppose you don't do email while your recuperating?

i do, hon, i just dont answer as fast as i usually do ...

11-18-2002, 06:44 PM	#1
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Observing the Leonids Apparently, the best meteor shower for decades can be viewed tomorrow morning. Wake the kids up drag em outa bed and make them cranky for their teachers. from Sky and Telescope- Anyone can plan to go out and look for the strong return of the Leonid meteor shower expected for the early morning hours of Tuesday, November 19th. A very bright Moon will be lighting up the night, but even so, many meteors may show through the moonlit sky. Here are the best predicted times to watch: In the Eastern time zone, from 5 to 6 a.m. Tuesday or just before dawn, whichever comes first at your site. (You can find when morning twilight begins by entering your location into our almanac.) Also, skywatchers in the northeastern U.S. and Atlantic Canada can try looking for a possible earlier, lesser wave of meteor activity from about 11:30 p.m. to 12:30 a.m. EST or AST. Central time zone: From 4 to 5 a.m. Tuesday Mountain time zone: From 3 to 4 a.m. Tuesday Pacific time zone: From 2 to 3 a.m. Tuesday __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

11-19-2002, 12:42 PM	#3
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	We were socked right in with clouds here, bummer. As compensation, we did get a great sunrise and we spotted a ring neck pheasant working his way through the brush below the house. We checked the cloud cover before waking up the units so there won't be any collateral damage at school today. Oh Oh Toad Day belated man. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

11-19-2002, 09:31 PM	#7
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	I saw a few last night. But, I saw something else that I'm not sure about. What I saw was a satellite...probably a ComSat in low Earth Orbit, leaving a contrail low near the horizon. This was NOT a jet (too high/fast) or a UFO (no rednecks). What did I see? Is it possible for a satellite to leave a contrail? I wouldn't think so as contrails mean inside the atmosphere, don't they? Maggie? Any opinions here? You probably know more about sats than anyone here. Brian __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

11-20-2002, 02:25 AM	#8
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	I caught a few, anyway, observing between about 0215 and 0340 PST. They were much washed out by the bright full moon; the sky was so light I could pick up on a floater in the view field of my left eye. I didn't try any magnitude estimates, but did note trails lasting up to 2, 2.5 secs. Next month, the Geminids. 14th December; be there or be square! __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

11-20-2002, 02:46 PM	#11
BrianR Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 3,338	Apparantly what I saw WAS the Space Station. The newspaper reported that at the time and place I saw the "thing" the ISS passed overhead. There is NO way it was a jet...WAAAY too fast for that. So I'm just hallucinating a contrail...that early is TOO early for these old bones anyway. I just happened to be awake. Brian "Curmudgeon In Training" __________________ Never be afraid to tell the world who you are. -- Anonymous

11-19-2002, 12:31 PM	#2
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Leonids! Hey, that reminds me- Happy B day Toad! (if a bit late). I offer a retroactive toast to the stars. Last year's show was great from the edge of a corn field, on the hood of my car at 5:00 AM, but this year's moon is really bright and its way colder to sit out. Maybe just replace the coffee with hot rum?

11-19-2002, 12:44 PM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Thanks! I took a look last night at 12:30 (supposed to be the first peak in the east), and couldn't see anything due to the big ol' honking full moon.

11-19-2002, 02:32 PM	#5
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Best viewing was about at 5:45am where I am -- the clouds finally thinned (some of the brighter ones had been showing through earlier). By 6am there was too much light from the impending dawn. (ha, it's not every day I get to use "impending dawn" in a sentence) They really covered a fairly large area of the sky, all the way from near-zenith to near the horizon, and maybe a 20 degree arc horizontally. But there weren't the advertised "hundreds per hour", possibly because of the cloud cover hiding the dimmer ones. Better than most of the supposed spectacular shows, all of which have been a big zero for a number of years.

11-19-2002, 05:26 PM	#6
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	when i went to bed last night, the sky was clear. set my alarm for 3:30 and when it went off, the sky was too clouded to see anything. when i woke up, lo and behold, the skies are clear. goddammit. if anyone got any good shots, post em. ~james

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