Cliff Clavin moment of the day: Indian Giver

[elSicomoro]

For about a decade now, the terms "Indian" and "Eskimo" have generally not been used in referring to those indigenous to the northern Americas. The terms generally used now are "Native American" and "Inuit" respectively. (This being along the lines of using terms such as "Asian" instead of "Oriental" and "African-American" instead of "Black"...or "Caucasian" instead of "White.")

Well, I was watching a Target commercial, which features Stevie Wonder and India Arie singing "The Christmas Song." And you're probably all familiar with the line "folks dressed up like Eskimos."

So...isn't "The Christmas Song" un-PC now? I mean, speaking as a Native American, I'm not offended (though the name used by the NFL team in Washington is a bit much to me...and is no longer protected by copyright). But maybe the Inuits are. Hmmm...perhaps I should consult some of the folks in Nome?

[Undertoad]

Chestnuts roasting on an open fire
Jack Frost nipping at your tits
Yuletide carols being sung by a choir
And folks dressed up like Inuits
Everybody intuits...

[Undertoad]

Heh heh! Because, you see, there was nothing else to rhyme with "Inuits"! See? See why it's funny?? I got nothin.

[elSicomoro]

Damn Shepps...are you getting a contact high from looking at that bong?

[Cam]

Syc while I'm thinking about this I want your opinion, since you brought it up what do you think about my Univeristy using the "Sioux" as their logo.

[elSicomoro]

Hmmm...good question.

To be fair, I'm only part Native American (Cherokee)...and I still suspect I'm part African, but that's another story.

My former college used "Indian" names (Indians for the men, Otahkis for the women) for the sports teams. And of course, you have the Braves, Blackhawks, etc...and the Fighting Illini of the University of Illinois.

The Sioux were some mean-spirited fightin' mofos from what I've read about them. But I don't have a real problem with the "Indian" names, with the exception of the Washington Redskins. (I mean, come on...that's just not cool anymore. You might as well have a team like the Philadelphia Darkies or something.)

The problem I have with the Native names involves things like the tomahawk chop in Atlanta and Chief Wahoo in Cleveland. That sorta thing used to not bother me, but as I read up more on Native American culture and what not, I can see why those type of things are considered offensive. Now you won't see me raise all hell over it, but it does make me cringe.

[headsplice]

For your edification:
"Sioux" is not the name that the tribes of the Midwest have for themselves. Sioux is actually a word from another tribe (and I forget which one) that means 'enemy', which is why a bunch of the N/L/Dakota are not pleased with being called such.

for cam: NDSU? how'd ya like losing your first game in the shiny new arena last year? :p
hehe, you got beat by us rodents!

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by sycamore
That sorta thing used to not bother me, but as I read up more on Native American culture and what not, I can see why those type of things are considered offensive. Now you won't see me raise all hell over it, but it does make me cringe.

Well, to tell you the truth Sycamore, I find your use of the phrase "Indian giver" a bit offensive too.

Everyone knows the PC term these days is "Native American giver". Jeez, get some class will ya.

[Cam]

for headsplice: It's UND, not NDSU
It was depressing and I'm pissed the Gophers aren't playing up here this year, I think we would have avenged our loss this year. Hopefully we will sweep you at home this year .


And your explanation for why people are upset makes sense, and that I can understand. Sadly in the quest for the great name change, it's come down to it being a symbol of discrimination, something I don't believe it was ever meant to be. The name was chose in the 30's or 40's I think, a time when discrimination was running rampant, but I doubt any white adminstrations would have affiliated themselves with that name just to discriminate.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Tobiasly
Well, to tell you the truth Sycamore, I find your use of the phrase "Indian giver" a bit offensive too.

Whatever, crackerman.

[headsplice]

its UND not NDSU

sorry, that was a bad mistake to make.
I have another question for you Cam:
I heard a rumor that the student rep body voted to change the name of the school, but the rich dude that funded the arena told the school if they changed it, he would pull his money out. Is this true? If so, are people up that way particularly upset at money buying out the will of 'the people' ?

[elSicomoro]

You've gotta love the Fighting Whites.

[MaggieL]

"Native American giver" is more diversity-friendly than "indian giver", but it's contrived and clumsy to use. A semantic nigger-rig.

We should strive to do these things properly instead of japping them. :-)

[elSicomoro]

Look, don't try to jew me with that shit.

[Cam]

Originally posted by headsplice

I have another question for you Cam:
I heard a rumor that the student rep body voted to change the name of the school, but the rich dude that funded the arena told the school if they changed it, he would pull his money out. Is this true? If so, are people up that way particularly upset at money buying out the will of 'the people' ?

It's true, Englstad did say that changing the name would result in pulling of funding. I wasn't here when all that was going on, and didn't here a lot about it at home but the first semester people where much more concerned with the fact that Englstad was spending his money on athletics and not on academics. The actually went over budget and money that was suppose to go to academics went to the arena. There was also an issue of Englstad being a Nazi to at one point. But it was another reason for not changing the name.

I almost wish we would have changed the name, not becuase I strongly feel the name should be changed but becuase then we wouldn't have got the arena, I mean it's an amazing place and everything, but due to all the political bullshit all the fun is gone from the games. The Arena actually made the student section sit down so that the rich bastards in the suite above them could see. People don't seem to realize that the students are why UND hockey exists.

By the way Ralph Englstad passed away last week kind of a bummer in a way, he was a really generous guy, at least to places he felt helped him out, like the university and his home town.