10/03/02: The History of a Symbol

juju · 10-03-2002, 04:46 AM

The swastika is universally known today as a symbol of racism and hate. But how many of you know that the swastika used to be a universal symbol of luck and prosperity? It held this meaning to numerous cultures for over 3000 years. It was only during World War II that people began to give the swastika negative connotations, and you can still find numerous pre-ww2 artifacts employing this symbol as a sign of good luck. Some examples are given below.

Unknown North American coin, minted during the Great Depression.

Taken from this site.The caption reads "Amerikanskt vykort från 1920-talet". I have no idea what this means.

GOOD LUCK EMBLEM

"The Swastika" is the oldest cross and emblem in the world. It forms a combination of four "L's" standing for Luck, Light, Love and Life. It has been found in ancient Rome, excavations in Grecian cities, on Buddhist idols, on Chinese coins dated 315 B.C., and our own Southwest Indians use it as an amulet.

It is claimed that the Mound Builders and Cliff Dwellers of Mexico, Central America consider "The Swastika" a charm to drive away evil and bring good luck, long life and prosperity to the possessor.

Luckymojo.com notes that the text on the card is factually innaccurate. According to that site, the Mound Builders and Cliff Dwellers did not live in Mexico, though they did use the swastika.

The caption on this one is, "Flower of Colorado. Amerikanskt vykort från 20-talet". I have no idea, but it's frightening, isn't it?

Some of these could be photoshopped, but from what i've gleaned from my Cultural Anthropology professor, the history behind this appears to be true. He himself has a pre-ww2 plate with various lucky-charms depicted on it, amoung them of course the giant, frightening swastika.

Not that I condone racism. I just think it's really fucked up how something we view very strongly as a symbol for hate, just 70 years ago was a symbol of good luck.

jaguar · 10-03-2002, 06:09 AM

Also at a 45 degree angle and flipped it's a buddhist symbol.
I've heard various dumbass tourists (usually american - what is it with american tourists???) going 'ohmygod that grave has a swastika on it!!!'

Nic Name · 10-03-2002, 08:40 AM

North of Toronto, Canada, there's a town called Swastika.

There's a map and discussion in the Toronto thread of the Cellar.

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?s=&...2&pagenumber=3

Quote:

Located just west of Kirkland Lake, Ontario, Swastika is less than an hour drive along highway 66 towards the Quebec border. This unincorporated township, located in the county of Timiskaming, has a population of around 545 and gets its name (and heritage) to a different time of the 20th century. During the early days of the century there was a lot of gold mining in this area. In 1911, brothers Bill and Jim Dusty found gold at a nearby lake, and named the mine after a visitor's good luck charm -- yes, a swastika.

At the outbreak of World War Two the Ontario government tried to change the name of the town to Winston (after Winston Churchill), but local residents protested the desecration of their name. It was not uncommon to see signs all over the town at this time saying; "The hell with Hitler. We came up with our name first!" So the name stayed.

btw: The swastika as a symbol of Nazi Germany was usually displayed as having been rotated at a 45-degree angle. As a symbol used by such religions as Jains, Hindus and Buddhists, on the other hand, the swastika is presented as upright, a distinction that should be recognized by illustrators.

Tobiasly · 10-03-2002, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
Also at a 45 degree angle and flipped it's a buddhist symbol.
I've heard various dumbass tourists (usually american - what is it with american tourists???) going 'ohmygod that grave has a swastika on it!!!'

Well, gee Jag, if I saw a 45-degree rotated flipped swastika, I'd still think it's a swastika. As juju has pointed out, most people these days don't know the history of the symbol, including myself up to 5 minutes ago.

So why do you call these tourists "dumbass"? Because they don't know the history of the symbol? Or because they don't know rotating it 45 degrees and inverting it makes it a different symbol?

Stupid fucking American tourists. I bet they go to Starbuck's too. Why don't you take a moment to enlighten them instead of calling names?

jaguar · 10-03-2002, 05:19 PM

I call them dumbass because they spend thier time in air conditioned comfort and make no attempt whatsoever to take the slightest interest in local or regional culture. They also tend to be the type who are stupid enough to say, take a richchet after midnight adn then raise all hell when they get mugged and take no responsability for their actions. If you're going to do be that stupid do us all a favour and watch a doco on your tv at home instead and save the rest of us the trouble of having to explain to you that yes - toilets are different over here, isn't it terrible.

10-03-2002, 05:57 PM

Do me a favor, then, and stay out of my country. We already have enough assholes; we don't need one more.

elSicomoro · 10-03-2002, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave
Do me a favor, then, and stay out of my country. We already have enough assholes; we don't need one more.

Who the fuck do you think you are?

This is MY country, bitch. :)

Tobiasly · 10-03-2002, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
I call them dumbass because they spend thier time in air conditioned comfort and make no attempt whatsoever to take the slightest interest in local or regional culture.

It sounds to me like they're visiting the damn site. That sounds like an interest to me. Excuse the hell out of them for not being experts in the matter.

Quote:

They also tend to be the type who are stupid enough to say, take a richchet after midnight adn then raise all hell when they get mugged and take no responsability for their actions. If you're going to do be that stupid do us all a favour and watch a doco on your tv at home instead and save the rest of us the trouble of having to explain to you that yes - toilets are different over here, isn't it terrible.

OK, you're really babbling here and generally making no sense, but it sure sounds to me like you have a ton of pent-up agression towards foreigners. I didn't know toilets are different in Australia. Does that make me a dumbass?

You should really do something about that giant chip on your shoulder. Maybe some counseling or something, I dunno. If I went off about the Mexicans who live around my town as much as you go off about Americans, you'd probably call me a xenophobic prick. Learn to deal with those who are different already.

Cam · 10-03-2002, 09:06 PM

Quote:

I call them dumbass because they spend thier time in air conditioned comfort and make no attempt whatsoever to take the slightest interest in local or regional culture.

God forbid somebody might want to relaxe air conditioned comfort on their well earned vacation. Maybe the all tourists should head out to the country and live off the land while living in a cardboard box. Then they could take some interest in the regional culture.

Obviously these people are interested in local culture or they wouldn't be there.

elSicomoro · 10-03-2002, 09:24 PM

Remember, ALL Americans are evil to non-Americans. We rape and pillage the world with a smile. :)

Cam · 10-03-2002, 09:27 PM

Oh yeah I forgot, I better go rob a poor canadian bloke tonight.

juju · 10-03-2002, 09:51 PM

To be fair, Jag's opinions are shared by the majority of the world. So I hear, anyway.

elSicomoro · 10-03-2002, 09:56 PM

Unfortunately, it's no better than the disdain many Americans seem to have towards foreigners.

Cam · 10-03-2002, 10:08 PM

Yeah it's a sad state of affairs. Hopefully someday we all realize we are different and that no one is better than the other. Until then I think we'll just have to keep our minds open to those differences.

Urbane Guerrilla · 10-04-2002, 08:41 PM

While historically we can point to swastikas/fylfots/gammadions being oriented both sunwise and antisunwise, I regard the sunwise-turning fylfot as being considerably more auspicious in a sun symbol.

It'd be hard indeed to come up with a more apt symbol for general catastrophe than a sun-symbol reversed, be it black or any other color, and reversing it is what the Nazis went for. Comic book artist Donna Barr had an apt remark on it all in her comic The Desert Peach, where someone was bemusedly fingering a small Nazi Party flag and wondering, "Tibetan Socialists...?"

The swastika cocked saltirewise got used in a couple of places, notably the Nazi banner and armbands from senior Party to HitlerJugend, but the squared-off and still reversed swastika was on standards and suchlike.

And I've been to Western Australia. I don't recall anything different about any toilets. On-demand gas-fired hot-water heaters, yes; weird and wonderful things done with pancakes for lunch, yes; heavy cream for coffee, yes -- but nothing at all strange about any toilets.

10-03-2002, 04:46 AM	#1
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	10/03/02: The History of a Symbol The swastika is universally known today as a symbol of racism and hate. But how many of you know that the swastika used to be a universal symbol of luck and prosperity? It held this meaning to numerous cultures for over 3000 years. It was only during World War II that people began to give the swastika negative connotations, and you can still find numerous pre-ww2 artifacts employing this symbol as a sign of good luck. Some examples are given below. Unknown North American coin, minted during the Great Depression. Taken from this site.The caption reads "Amerikanskt vykort från 1920-talet". I have no idea what this means. A postcard, copyright 1907 by E. Phillips, a U.S. card publisher. Text on the back of the card reads: GOOD LUCK EMBLEM "The Swastika" is the oldest cross and emblem in the world. It forms a combination of four "L's" standing for Luck, Light, Love and Life. It has been found in ancient Rome, excavations in Grecian cities, on Buddhist idols, on Chinese coins dated 315 B.C., and our own Southwest Indians use it as an amulet. It is claimed that the Mound Builders and Cliff Dwellers of Mexico, Central America consider "The Swastika" a charm to drive away evil and bring good luck, long life and prosperity to the possessor. Luckymojo.com notes that the text on the card is factually innaccurate. According to that site, the Mound Builders and Cliff Dwellers did not live in Mexico, though they did use the swastika. The caption on this one is, "Flower of Colorado. Amerikanskt vykort från 20-talet". I have no idea, but it's frightening, isn't it? Some of these could be photoshopped, but from what i've gleaned from my Cultural Anthropology professor, the history behind this appears to be true. He himself has a pre-ww2 plate with various lucky-charms depicted on it, amoung them of course the giant, frightening swastika. Not that I condone racism. I just think it's really fucked up how something we view very strongly as a symbol for hate, just 70 years ago was a symbol of good luck.

10-03-2002, 06:09 AM	#2
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Also at a 45 degree angle and flipped it's a buddhist symbol. I've heard various dumbass tourists (usually american - what is it with american tourists???) going 'ohmygod that grave has a swastika on it!!!' __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

10-03-2002, 05:19 PM	#5
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I call them dumbass because they spend thier time in air conditioned comfort and make no attempt whatsoever to take the slightest interest in local or regional culture. They also tend to be the type who are stupid enough to say, take a richchet after midnight adn then raise all hell when they get mugged and take no responsability for their actions. If you're going to do be that stupid do us all a favour and watch a doco on your tv at home instead and save the rest of us the trouble of having to explain to you that yes - toilets are different over here, isn't it terrible. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

10-03-2002, 09:27 PM	#11
Cam dripping with ignorance Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Grand Forks ND Posts: 642	Oh yeah I forgot, I better go rob a poor canadian bloke tonight. __________________ After the seventh beer I generally try and stay away from the keyboard, I apologize for what happens when I fail.

10-03-2002, 10:08 PM	#14
Cam dripping with ignorance Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Grand Forks ND Posts: 642	Yeah it's a sad state of affairs. Hopefully someday we all realize we are different and that no one is better than the other. Until then I think we'll just have to keep our minds open to those differences. __________________ After the seventh beer I generally try and stay away from the keyboard, I apologize for what happens when I fail.

10-03-2002, 05:57 PM	#6
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Do me a favor, then, and stay out of my country. We already have enough assholes; we don't need one more.

10-03-2002, 09:24 PM	#10
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Remember, ALL Americans are evil to non-Americans. We rape and pillage the world with a smile. :)

10-03-2002, 09:51 PM	#12
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	To be fair, Jag's opinions are shared by the majority of the world. So I hear, anyway.

10-03-2002, 09:56 PM	#13
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Unfortunately, it's no better than the disdain many Americans seem to have towards foreigners.

10-04-2002, 08:41 PM	#15
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	While historically we can point to swastikas/fylfots/gammadions being oriented both sunwise and antisunwise, I regard the sunwise-turning fylfot as being considerably more auspicious in a sun symbol. It'd be hard indeed to come up with a more apt symbol for general catastrophe than a sun-symbol reversed, be it black or any other color, and reversing it is what the Nazis went for. Comic book artist Donna Barr had an apt remark on it all in her comic The Desert Peach, where someone was bemusedly fingering a small Nazi Party flag and wondering, "Tibetan Socialists...?" The swastika cocked saltirewise got used in a couple of places, notably the Nazi banner and armbands from senior Party to HitlerJugend, but the squared-off and still reversed swastika was on standards and suchlike. And I've been to Western Australia. I don't recall anything different about any toilets. On-demand gas-fired hot-water heaters, yes; weird and wonderful things done with pancakes for lunch, yes; heavy cream for coffee, yes -- but nothing at all strange about any toilets. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 10-04-2002 at 08:47 PM.

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