Good Knight

[Nic Name]

What's with all these American's getting honorary, or would that be honourary, knighthoods?

Alan Greenspan to receive honorary knighthood next week, Buckingham palace says

By Associated Press, 9/19/2002 13:29

LONDON (AP) Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan will receive an honorary knighthood from Queen Elizabeth II next week, Buckingham Palace said Thursday.

Greenspan, who has helped steer the U.S. economy for 15 years, will be honored for his contribution to global economic stability.

Because he is not a British citizen, Greenspan cannot use ''Sir'' in front of his name, but he can put the letters KBE after his name. The initials stand for Knight Commander of the British Empire.

Greenspan was first selected as Fed chairman by Ronald Reagan, another honorary knight, in 1987. The British government announced in August that Greenspan would be knighted.

He will receive the honor next Thursday at Balmoral, the royal family's residence in the Scottish Highlands.

Others Americans who have received honorary knighthoods include former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and former President George Bush.

Who's next?



President Bush, Winston Churchill and Princess Diana, shown in these file photos, are distant relatives whose ancestry can be traced back to a 15th century English squire, genealogists say. Researchers for the U.S.-based company MyFamily.com, which has a license to publish British census records from 1841 to 1901 on the Internet, found that the trio's roots can be traced to Henry Spencer of Badby, Northamptonshire, who lived between 1420-1478 and was married to Isabella Lincoln. (AP Photo)

Don't tell me he's a descendant of Abe!

[Nic Name]

By the way, Canada has a 90-year tradition of rejecting British titles for Canadian citizens, as being elitist and class-based.

An insightful analysis of the Canadian perspective on British honours is presented by William Galbraith here.

Aren't foreign titles bestowed upon American leaders by the British monarchy an anachronism and affront to the Republic?

[Hubris Boy]

It's strictly honorary, although it's real as far as the British are concerned.

There's nothing unusual about it, either. Since WWII, over sixty Americans, including Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Norman Schwarzkopf and Colin Powell have received honors from the British monarch.

Even Stephen Spielberg, (as if to prove that money doesn't buy good taste) was invested KBE (Knight of the British Empire in 2001.

By the way, Canada has a 90-year tradition of rejecting British titles for Canadian citizens, as being elitist and class-based.

Really.

How strange, then, that Canadians persist in referring to their PM as "the Right Honourable". I guess Canadian egalitarianism only goes so far.

[Nic Name]

Why would these Americans accept the honourary title KBE, Knight Commander of the British Empire?

Titles of Office such as The Right Honourable, or Mr. President, for that matter are titles of office and are different altogether.

A Knighthood bestowed by a foreign monarch, honourary or otherwise, is "unacceptable" by a true republican ... but obviously not by Republicans.

I think the British are just extending their British Imperialism by pandering to egos of foreign leaders. Their egos boosted, they fail to perceive the role of the Knights as defenders of the Crown.

I pledge allegiance to the ...

God Save King George.

[Griff]

Under the Griff administration, accept a title get deported.

[perth]

totally unrelated

~james

[elSicomoro]

Don't forget Clinton...he is also an honorary knight.

I wonder how serious they are with the "Sir" thing these days...Bob Geldof? Mick Jagger? MICK JAGGER??? I was reading an interview with Keith Richards the other day...he said that the whole deal over Mick getting knighted caused some serious tension within the Stones. Although, if I understand correctly, the Prime Minister is the one that makes the recommendations...thanks Tony.

[Tobiasly]

There are different levels of knighthood, and not all of them get to use the title Sir. I think KBE is one of the ones that doesn't.

[Nic Name]

Syc, I think you're wrong about Clinton receiving an honorary knighthood. If you have anything on that, I'd be interested.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/september1...649629,00.html

Tobiasly, you may be misinformed.

http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/uk_medals.htm

http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page489.asp

[russotto]

If I recall my Constitution correctly, Alan Greenspan needs special dispensation from Congress to accept this.

Unless someone cares to argue that Federal Reserve Chairman is not an office of profit or trust under the United States.

[elSicomoro]

I think you're right Nic. I could have sworn that Clinton was bestowed the honor just before leaving office, but could find nothing to support it. *shrugs*

[Hubris Boy]

Originally posted by Nic Name

A Knighthood bestowed by a foreign monarch, honourary or otherwise, is "unacceptable" by a true republican ... but obviously not by Republicans.

*rubs eyes in disbelief*

Did you just call Stephen Spielberg a Republican?

[Nic Name]

In that sentence, I was making a distinction between lower case r republicans and upper case R Republicans, not between Republicans and Democrats. Making the point that the Republicans who accept knighthoods are not republicans at heart.

[Hubris Boy]

Originally posted by Nic Name
In that sentence, I was making a distinction between lower case r republicans and upper case R Republicans, not between Republicans and Democrats. Making the point that the Republicans who accept knighthoods are not republicans at heart.

The same point could be made about democrats / Democrats, I'm sure.

[Xugumad]

British Knighthoods, even honourary ones, are entirely selected by the current government. Similarly, the Queen's public speeches are usually written by the government. They are usually a political ploy, used by the incumbent PM to bestow favours or make political statements.

Blair sees himself as a populist Messiah, often inviting popular public figures to Downing Street parties, such as the popular bands (e.g. Oasis), and bestowing Knighthoods on 'important' Britons, i.e. either those who have done a lot for Britain, or who have attracted positive attention to themselves, as Britons. If a public figure of great popularity is knighted, it makes people feel better about themselves, and about the society they live in, since achievement is symbolically rewarded by the Crown, which represents Britain as a whole.

Geldof's direct organisatorial involvement in Live Aid etc., and his personal donations have probably contributed more to save lives and ease suffering than you could imagine.

Jagger is and was one of the most public rock stars ever, having promoted British cultural values (read: British rock music) to great success.

Sean Connery was semi-publically denied a knighthood for some time, since he was very public with his criticism regarding Scottish devolution. Naturally, Sean resides in sunnier lands himself and only comes to Scotland to play golf, but it didn't stop him making grand public statements about an independent Scotland, thus his shunning.

Honourary knighthoods for foreigners, usually Americans, are the British government's way of saying 'look here, we are your closest ally, we are your friends, don't forget about us, we are really important, us.' It's also a feel-good way of associating Britain with individuals of supposedly considerably achievement, e.g. Spielberg, Greenspan.

Finally, knighthoods don't mean anything, especially in today's society, having been devalued beyond all recognition due to their populist 'handing out' to whoever will pose best with the then-current government. PM Harold Wilson, having been defeated in a popular vote, elected to appoint his chauffeur a Knight of the Realm, just before leaving office. More upstanding and morally righteous Britons, such as Harold Pinter, refused the knighthood. (not wanting to be knighted during Thatcher's governmental period)

X.