5% of U.S. Catholic Bishops don't think sexual abuse is a fireable offense!

Nothing But Net · 06-15-2002, 05:53 AM

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/14/bishops.conference/index.html">Here is the latest</a>

Last I heard, failure to even report <i>suspected</i> child abuse is a crime in this country.

Can't wait to see how this one pans out!

vsp · 06-15-2002, 11:32 AM

From the report:

"As the bishops debated the proposal Friday, an important Roman Catholic newspaper reported that a "zero-tolerance" stance might have a rough time getting approval at the Vatican."

Ah, well, FUCK the Vatican.

We are dealing with an organization that is convinced that you can spend fifty years killing, raping, stealing, lying, and otherwise abusing anything in your path, but if you then repent and sing a chorus of "Jesus Loves Me," all is just fine from the church's perspective. Well, companies who want my resume generally request an employment history, and it's odd to think that an organization judging worthiness for eternal salvation applies looser standards than THAT.

MaggieL · 06-15-2002, 12:53 PM

Hmmm. 5% of the bishops think past child abusers should keep thier jobs? I wonder what percentage of the bishops are abusers themselves?

tw · 06-17-2002, 12:09 AM

When the church denied any child molestation was happening, at least 850 of their 60,000 people were transferred for the act. At least 4 American Bishops are guilty of child molesting. So the Bishops made a big show of acknowledging the problem and a big show of zero tolerance. Problem is the people who condoned it, advocated it, and openly protected child molesters are not subject to any punishment. At best, those accused and previously known to be guilty will be on restricted duty.

The whole purpose of that Bishops conference is damage control. Only do what is necessary to deflect criticism. It is not a wholesale reform - just enough to be politically acceptable. No top management suffers any consequences for all but endorsing child molesting.

In the meantime, the Church is taking extra measures to protect their assets from lawsuits. This conference will delay reams of civil suits in which the Church should be found guilty. You can bet they are hiring Ken Starr types to do what Ken Starr did for GM - destroy the evidence before Discovery papers can be filed.

Numbers, such as 8% of the clergy have practiced pedophilia, are suggested. This is not unreasonable considering to what extreme the church has gone to coverup the entire affair. The Dallas Morning News tried to get some numbers as to how large this problem was. The church stonewalled - as one does in damage control. So the paper got on phones seeking names of known pedophiles by simply calling parishes and dioceses. They quickly identified pedophiles in 40 states suggesting that the numbers are probably quite larger.

Notice no consequences for any top church management. This is not a wholesale confessions. They have only done what Nixon so tried to do with Watergate - keep the blame away from top people. Pretend to punish a few so as to quiet the public. Pedophilia is directly traceable to actions by top church management who, so far, have appeared lilly white. Wonder if there are any tape recording machines in the Cardinal's offices that the Supreme Court will have to rule on before they are pirated out of the country to Rome - for protection of the evidence?

jaguar · 06-17-2002, 01:53 AM

What i' wondering (and the same applies here at the moment too) is where are the criminal charges for these people? Surely knowly covering up a crime and allowing it to happen again is a criminal act?

Undertoad · 06-17-2002, 08:42 AM

There was one thing that one Bishop did in Dallas that was laudable: he confessed, and asked to be forgiven.

Noted pundit/blogger and gay Catholic Andrew Sullivan pointed out a while back that Cardinal Law never did that. It's a remarkable bit of human nature that the folks in charge have resisted "confession" at all costs. I watched Lay after I read that, and sure enough, his attitude was that of someone who made proclamations, not that of a flawed human being who made mistakes and needed forgiving. The Pope didn't help when his own proclamation was that all priests should be perfect. Hey dude, isn't it part of your teaching that only you get that pass?

vsp · 06-17-2002, 01:26 PM

Which is just a tad ironic, given how important the institution of the confessional is to the Catholic faith, don't you think?

Or maybe that's just it -- this is one time when they can't sit in a box, confess sins in a private conversation with another member of the club, perform a designated penance and magically be "all better," forgiven and ready for action with the "real world" none the wiser.

Knock-knock, the real world wants in, and it's not happy.

elSicomoro · 06-17-2002, 09:57 PM

Granted, I've never been a practicing Catholic, but...

The newer practicing generation of Catholics should be outraged, protesting in the streets. Effigies of Cardinal Law should be burning in Boston. Parishoners should be withholding any money they give to their parishes. (Boston's Catholic Charities is already feeling the pinch.)

Yet, the hard-liners are still in control. The ones that believe in "saving" marriages at all costs, abhor divorcees, and probably hated Vatican II.

And then you have the apathetic types like me, who got bored with the Church's unwillingness to change and stood on the other side of the Church's line on social issues (birth control, abortion).

What I simply cannot understand is why the Church wants to protect a vile few while exposing its finest servants to ridicule.

MaggieL · 06-17-2002, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore

What I simply cannot understand is why the Church wants to protect a vile few while exposing its finest servants to ridicule.

Like most cases of inexplicable behavior by the Roman Catholic Church, I'm thinking the problem is basically doctrinal.

The past offending clergy have gone though the process with the hierarchy, and have been basically been told "you're forgiven, go now and sin no more". There's enormous reticence to go back to them now and say: "Uh, remember that absolution five to ten years ago? Sorry, but it turns out it's no good with the civil authorities."

Not to mention if the past offenders get outed, the parishes they've been foisted off on will be livid, too. And embarsaed to have kindly old Father Duffy show up on some Megan's Law website.

"Dude! You have sex with children! You know, we believe in equality for everybody and tolerance and all that gay stuff -- but dude! Fuck you. Seriously." --South Park

06-15-2002, 05:53 AM	#1
Nothing But Net Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Spring, Texas Posts: 1,481	5% of U.S. Catholic Bishops don't think sexual abuse is a fireable offense! <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/06/14/bishops.conference/index.html">Here is the latest</a> Last I heard, failure to even report <i>suspected</i> child abuse is a crime in this country. Can't wait to see how this one pans out! Last edited by Nothing But Net; 06-15-2002 at 05:56 AM.

06-15-2002, 12:53 PM	#3
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	Hmmm. 5% of the bishops think past child abusers should keep thier jobs? I wonder what percentage of the bishops are abusers themselves? __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

06-17-2002, 01:53 AM	#5
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	What i' wondering (and the same applies here at the moment too) is where are the criminal charges for these people? Surely knowly covering up a crime and allowing it to happen again is a criminal act? __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

06-15-2002, 11:32 AM	#2
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	From the report: "As the bishops debated the proposal Friday, an important Roman Catholic newspaper reported that a "zero-tolerance" stance might have a rough time getting approval at the Vatican." Ah, well, FUCK the Vatican. We are dealing with an organization that is convinced that you can spend fifty years killing, raping, stealing, lying, and otherwise abusing anything in your path, but if you then repent and sing a chorus of "Jesus Loves Me," all is just fine from the church's perspective. Well, companies who want my resume generally request an employment history, and it's odd to think that an organization judging worthiness for eternal salvation applies looser standards than THAT.

06-17-2002, 12:09 AM	#4
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	When the church denied any child molestation was happening, at least 850 of their 60,000 people were transferred for the act. At least 4 American Bishops are guilty of child molesting. So the Bishops made a big show of acknowledging the problem and a big show of zero tolerance. Problem is the people who condoned it, advocated it, and openly protected child molesters are not subject to any punishment. At best, those accused and previously known to be guilty will be on restricted duty. The whole purpose of that Bishops conference is damage control. Only do what is necessary to deflect criticism. It is not a wholesale reform - just enough to be politically acceptable. No top management suffers any consequences for all but endorsing child molesting. In the meantime, the Church is taking extra measures to protect their assets from lawsuits. This conference will delay reams of civil suits in which the Church should be found guilty. You can bet they are hiring Ken Starr types to do what Ken Starr did for GM - destroy the evidence before Discovery papers can be filed. Numbers, such as 8% of the clergy have practiced pedophilia, are suggested. This is not unreasonable considering to what extreme the church has gone to coverup the entire affair. The Dallas Morning News tried to get some numbers as to how large this problem was. The church stonewalled - as one does in damage control. So the paper got on phones seeking names of known pedophiles by simply calling parishes and dioceses. They quickly identified pedophiles in 40 states suggesting that the numbers are probably quite larger. Notice no consequences for any top church management. This is not a wholesale confessions. They have only done what Nixon so tried to do with Watergate - keep the blame away from top people. Pretend to punish a few so as to quiet the public. Pedophilia is directly traceable to actions by top church management who, so far, have appeared lilly white. Wonder if there are any tape recording machines in the Cardinal's offices that the Supreme Court will have to rule on before they are pirated out of the country to Rome - for protection of the evidence?

06-17-2002, 08:42 AM	#6
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	There was one thing that one Bishop did in Dallas that was laudable: he confessed, and asked to be forgiven. Noted pundit/blogger and gay Catholic Andrew Sullivan pointed out a while back that Cardinal Law never did that. It's a remarkable bit of human nature that the folks in charge have resisted "confession" at all costs. I watched Lay after I read that, and sure enough, his attitude was that of someone who made proclamations, not that of a flawed human being who made mistakes and needed forgiving. The Pope didn't help when his own proclamation was that all priests should be perfect. Hey dude, isn't it part of your teaching that only you get that pass?

06-17-2002, 01:26 PM	#7
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	Which is just a tad ironic, given how important the institution of the confessional is to the Catholic faith, don't you think? Or maybe that's just it -- this is one time when they can't sit in a box, confess sins in a private conversation with another member of the club, perform a designated penance and magically be "all better," forgiven and ready for action with the "real world" none the wiser. Knock-knock, the real world wants in, and it's not happy.

06-17-2002, 09:57 PM	#8
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Granted, I've never been a practicing Catholic, but... The newer practicing generation of Catholics should be outraged, protesting in the streets. Effigies of Cardinal Law should be burning in Boston. Parishoners should be withholding any money they give to their parishes. (Boston's Catholic Charities is already feeling the pinch.) Yet, the hard-liners are still in control. The ones that believe in "saving" marriages at all costs, abhor divorcees, and probably hated Vatican II. And then you have the apathetic types like me, who got bored with the Church's unwillingness to change and stood on the other side of the Church's line on social issues (birth control, abortion). What I simply cannot understand is why the Church wants to protect a vile few while exposing its finest servants to ridicule.

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