Stupid Traffic Question

[Kitsune]

Help me, great Cellar. I seek your collective wisdom.

I drive through this intersection on an almost daily basis and its starting to piss me off thanks to other drivers getting very confused.



Imagine you're the silver car in the above image approaching the intersection, traveling south (down), in the right lane. The traffic light at this intersection is red and you wish to go around the curve and head west. Is it legal to turn on red?

There is no "No Right On Red" sign.
...but the road doesn't change names when you make the turn. So it may not really be a turn?

Bonus: can a car traveling south in the center lane also turn right on red?

[glatt]

It's not a corner for the cars coming from the top of the picture, it's simply a curve. So if they continue through the light after stopping, they are going "straight" not "turning." They would be running the red light.

Edit: Oh, and my reasoning is that there is no actual sharp corner, so it's not a corner, even though the two roads are 90 degrees to each other. The fact that they have the same name also supports this interpretation.

[monster]

If there is no other "right" that a person could turn red on, then the sign must refer to the bend. There is a stop line, so it's not "simply a curve".

I say no, they cannot go west on a red.

continuation of road name is meaningless at a crossroads, both roads continue on the other side -doesn't mean the traffic doesn't have to stop.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by monster

then the sign must refer to the bend

There is no sign, though.

The traffic light facing southbound traffic makes it even more confusing: the red light is a standard light, but when it turns green it shows an arrow for both lanes.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

There is no sign, though.

The traffic light facing southbound traffic makes it even more confusing: the red light is a standard light, but when it turns green it shows an arrow for both lanes.

Did you really mean southbound? The silver car will see what you just described?

[barefoot serpent]

Both lanes should be able to turn on red. There appears to be no sight line obstruction for the westbound traffic and no sign saying: no rt. on red.

What is that dark object at the outer apex of the turn?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

There is no sign, though.

The traffic light facing southbound traffic makes it even more confusing: the red light is a standard light, but when it turns green it shows an arrow for both lanes.

oh sorry, I misread. Then yes, both lanes. but they have to stop first. and give way to other traffic. and it's not compulsory to go.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by glatt

Did you really mean southbound? The silver car will see what you just described?

Yeah. I'll try to get a photograph of it, tonight.

The number of people who continue on red is about 50%. This results in a lot of angry, impatient drivers.

Originally Posted by barefoot serpent

What is that dark object at the outer apex of the turn?

Looks like a vehicle that was in the southbound turn lane heading east.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

The number of people who continue on red is about 50%. This results in a lot of angry, impatient drivers.
.

Which drivers are getting angry? Ones behind the 50% who won't go on red? Or ones trying to turn left from the other road but prevented by those continuing on red?

[glatt]

The real question is if it's a curve or a corner. If it's a corner, then both lanes can make the turn on red after stopping. If it's a curve, then neither lane can make the "turn" because there is no "turn" to make. They are continuing straight on the same road, which happens to curve.

I think it's a curve because there are no turn arrows painted on the pavement in those two lanes. A lack of arrows means those lanes are lanes that go straight through the intersection. The road has the same name on both sides of the intersection, so it's the same road, and you are not "turning" from one road to another you are simply continuing through the intersection on the same road. There is also no sharp corner.

If the light changes from red to two green arrows pointing right, then that is confusing, because right pointing arrows indicate a turn, not a curve.

[Kitsune]

Here's the Google Maps link if anyone cares.

[monster]

hmmm, I see where you're coming from re curve, but I would say that it's a turn. the arrow lights suppot this, and the continuation of road name is irrelevant. (e.g. Sometimes you get roads that "dog leg" when they cross another road, so you have to treat them as two separate road junctions, even though the roads you are leaving at one and joining at another have the same name) Also the lines -we get lines painted on intersections to guide left-turning traffic. Line's don't always imply the continuation of the road, although i do agree it looks like that here

[monster]

OK I give up. Now I think glatt's right, it's not a turn. I don't know.

Do the cops pull people over who go right on red? if not, then I'd say it's intended to be considered a turn. How's that? If you won't get into trouble, then it's OK.....

Or.... did you get into trouble and you're thinking of contesting it?

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by monster

Or.... did you get into trouble and you're thinking of contesting it?

Heh. I'm not in trouble, but campus police can be a pain with their traffic stops. I don't really want to cross them.

It is better to be safe, but at this long light people tend to get angry and lay on the horn if you stop. I'd say the ticket isn't worth it, though...

[glatt]

Now that I look at it more closely, I'm even more certain that it's a "curve" and not a "corner." There are dotted lines marking the lanes as you go around the curve. They aren't those special tiny dotted lines you sometimes see in intersections to held guide traffic making turns. These are regular dotted lines separating the lanes of the main road.

If you continue around the curve on this main road after stopping for the red light, you better hope there isn't a cop around..