London/Glasgow Non-Bombs

[Kitsune]

At least The Register is getting the technical details right, but you'll never hear of the near impossibility of the fuel-air bomb device actually working in the mainstream news since it wouldn't be quite as exciting or, well, terrorizing to the public. Same as the JFK plot that would have "killed thousands". Right. If these guys are looking to set a fire, there are easier ways to commit arson, but then you'd never hear things like, "the devastation that would be caused had this plot succeeded is just unthinkable." Unthinkable. Oh, the terror! These terrorists aren't stupid, the system caught them just in time to prevent the chilling plot from unfolding. It could even happen at Disney World.

So, of course it is also time for a secret document to be accidentally leaked that details a predicted "terror spectacular". Are you nervous, yet?

With this being an important holiday week in the US and all, you be should remain hyper-vigilant. Report anything suspicious, especially if you happen to hear any explosions in the night.

[Spexxvet]

psssssst! There's a guy in Tampa who is making it seem like we have no terror threat to be scareded about. Better wiretap his phone - he might be trying to get us to lower our guard so he can spring the big one on us - wreak unthinkable terror on us, as we celebrate our country's birthday, for god's sake! It's unthinkable!

[tw]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

psssssst! There's a guy in Tampa who is making it seem like we have no terror threat to be scareded about. Better wiretap his phone - ...!

Don't worry about it. Everyone in The Cellar is now monitored because someone here blew the whistle years ago on Saddam's mythical WMDs.

It is legal. A secret behind widespread White House bugging - it is illegal to monitor any discussion while in transit. But once that conversation is stored on a server, then government has every right to spy on it without judicial review and without informing anyone - Congress, the courts, or you.

We are all on the suspect list because someone told some truths we were not supposed to know.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Tw says a lot of things, doesn't he? In a more humorous man, I'd read this as satire.

Maybe tw resolved for New Year's that he'd write funnier stuff, as a sudden burst of funny posts began with the year, but had slumped the last few months.

[Aliantha]

Well they did actually have a car smashed into the airport in glasgow which blew up.

I'd say that's not a non-bomb. Just not as bad as it would have been if the gas cylinders had ignited.

The group who are allegedly responsible for this latest spate also have contacts in Australia where two people are being questioned by the AFP as well as British police. One of these was a doctor who was about to board a plane to Pakistan (I think) on a one way ticket having not even told his work that he wouldn't be in.

[DanaC]

There's also a Canadian connection I believe.

So far all suspects arrested are connected to the NHS in someway. Doctors, lab assistant etc. People are calling for a review of how we deal with overseas recruitment for these areas.

[Aliantha]

Same here

[Griff]

Originally Posted by DanaC

So far all suspects arrested are connected to the NHS in someway.

See, I've been trying to tell you about socialized medicine.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Well they did actually have a car smashed into the airport in glasgow which blew up.

It looks like it is pretty much just a burning car to me. The Jeep is still in one piece and there is no visible structure damage, so I'd say that was no bomb.

So, why is it that authorities and the media describe these guys as evil genius masterminds that could have killed thousands when they really should be stating that these crazed nutjobs wanted to do lots of damage but were really incompetent morons? One portrayal reinforces the terrorist ideal while encouraging more to enlist in their ranks by glorifying the perpetrators. The other doesn't exactly increase terrorist morale or make their attempts so terrifying.

It doesn't exactly make one think very highly of the reporting authorities when you realize they seem to want to scare everyone just as much as the extremist groups do.

[Aliantha]

OK, you lot can have the prize for the worst, most evil terrorist plot.

What is this? Some kind of competition to see who can have the most people killed by terrorists?

If you happened to be standing in that airport when the car smashed into it, do you think you'd be terrorised?

For fucks sake. give me a fucking break.

[Sundae]

From the original link
Snipped for brevity but I don't think I've taken anything out of context:

Today we have news from London, where a "big [explosive] device" was discovered inside a parked car near Piccadilly Circus. The device consisted of petrol, propane gas cylinders, and nails... Bomb disposal specialists made it safe, and police officials and politicians began slyly invoking the terrorist bogeyman. Heaven forbid the public should be starved of their regular fear rations.

The bogeyman doesn't exist. Someone drove a car into the West End with the intention of either hurting as many people as possible, or at the very least causing terror through fear and disruption. The definition of terrorism, surely?

"As the police and security services have said on so many occasions, we face a serious and continuous threat to our country", day-old PM Gordon Brown said. "But this incident does recall the need for us to be vigilant at all times and the public to be alert at any potential incidents."

I don't think that response was overblown in any way. There is a threat in this country. We should be alert. The ambulance crew could have shrugged off a smoking car, but even this article admits it would probably have led to an explosion.

"It is obvious that if the device had detonated there could have been serious injury or loss of life", Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke intoned gravely. Ah, if it had detonated. Yes, it could have been a real horror...

[Without detonation] then the propane will ignite, and a nice fireball will blossom. A fireball, not an explosion. Oh, the Piccadilly fireball would have blown the car's windows out, and popped its doors open, and sent various bits like mirrors and so forth into the air at velocities possibly fatal to people nearby... Yes, they might have injured or killed one or two passers-by, but any body count would have come in spite of them, not as a product of their efforts.

I can't see that this would have been a comfort to those injured or the families of those killed.

I'm not saying this was a competant and terrifying act of terrorism. But certainly our broadsheets aren't saying that either, whatever the tabloids scream - tabloids are always screaming something (usually about benefit scrounging foreigners if you look at the right wing press).

However you look at it, it was an attempt - however amateur - by British nationals to main and preferably kill other British nationals. I will therefore take it as seriously as when it was the IRA doing the same.

I think to spin this incident to make out that the police and the Governement are rubbing their hands with glee at the opportunity to make people stop parking their cars outside Heathrow unnecessarily is simplistic and incorrect. I know there are people who think that all governments are power-hungry and will do anything they can to control people's lives - personally I think they have enough on their plates already.

It's hard to know just what measures are necessary following an attack. Personally I think such a bungled attempt shouldn't result in so much disruption. I'd be willing to take my chances at the airport with no-one to blame but my own blase attitude if I get in the way of a flaming Jeep. I don't have that choice, but then I accept that society limits my choices when I accept the benefits.

[fargon]

Unfortunately the wannabe attacks in London had the desired effect. The bone heads shut down an important part of town for an appreciable amount of time. Inconveniencing people, and creating more BS for the residents to contend with.

[DanaC]

Which is the strategy the IRA used to employ. Inconvenience and upset can be as effective a terror tactic as massive bloodshed. During the IRA campaign, they would usually phone a warning through shortly before the bomb was detonated, so that police had time to evacuate the area. This meant there was rarely a large loss of life, but usually a big effect on trade and business.

[TheMercenary]

So do you guys think this is not as big as previously thought given the spate of arrests they have made? Do you think that extremists elements in the UK are not really a threat? It was my understanding that these "non-bombs" discovered were bombs. Lethal ones at that.

[Undertoad]

These people will not be calling anybody, so no worries about that.

I fall on the side of taking a decent amount of alarm. I've read all the sites on this, and in particular I was amused by one that kept saying "what morons! this is nothing! if they had an oxidizer it would have been much more devastating, but they're not smart enough to figure that out!" Well now that you've told 'em, sparky, I'm sure they'll get it right next time. Impotence makes 'em madder.

Counting on them to remain dumb is not really a strategy as much as a hope, and in either case I can't see how it's room for optimism.