The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Politics
FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Politics Where we learn not to think less of others who don't share our views

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-24-2007, 07:04 AM   #1
Griff
still says videotape
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,813
Defining Fascism

A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator, and often a policy of belligerent nationalism. -The American Heritage Dictionary


Italian Fascism according to the bastard whose life's work reversed mankind's progress eliminating servitude to the State after so much progress had been made.


Wiki has a bunch cherry picking below
A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.- Robert Paxton Definitions like this are why Bush and UG are often called fascists.

The Cult of Tradition, The Cult of Action for Action's Sake, Disagreement is Treason, Fear of Difference, Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class, Obsession With a plot, Pacifism is Trafficking With the Enemy/Life is Permanent Warfare, Contempt for the Weak, Selective Populism, and Newspeak. - Umberto Eco I really like his action for actions sake angle. It crosses easily into all Statist philosophy not just Fascist.

Organicist conceptions of community; Philosophical idealism;
Idealization of "manly" (usually peasant or village) virtues;
A resentment of mass democracy; Elitist conceptions of political and social leadership; Racism (and usually, though not necessarily, anti-Semitism); Militarism; Imperialism. - John Weiss

We have to be careful with some definitions that are out there because they are written with the intent of showing difference with the other authoritarian scourge of the last century. We probably won't get an agreed definition but authoritarianism, militarism, and nationalism seem to be the common threads. I would also throw the close relationship of business and government in there. - Griff
__________________
If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you.
- Louis D. Brandeis

Last edited by Griff; 04-24-2007 at 09:37 AM.
Griff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 08:10 AM   #2
elSicomoro
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,486
Can we all agree that fascism sucks?
elSicomoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 09:39 AM   #3
Griff
still says videotape
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,813
Somehow, I suspect not.
__________________
If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Griff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 11:30 AM   #4
piercehawkeye45
Franklin Pierce
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,695
Hey guys, don't bash fascism, I'm one after all.
piercehawkeye45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 02:57 PM   #5
rkzenrage
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
For me if you promote your ideals over all and crush/suppress all other ideals. Usually accompanied with the destruction of any materials and teachings that contradict theirs.

What the European nations do with anything to do with the BNP, whit power groups or anything to do with national socialist.
So ironic and hilarious, to become a fascist to fight them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 03:22 PM   #6
Ibby
erika
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: "the high up north"
Posts: 6,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienHTF
Dr. Britt did an extensive study of fascist regimes. Among the study subjects were Germany (Hitler), Italy (Mussolini), Spain (Franco), Greece (Papadopolous), Chile (Pinochet), and Indonesia (Suharto). He found that the governments of each regime all exhibited fourteen common characteristics. The scary part is that the U.S. under Bush's presidency ALSO exhibits all fourteen. Therefore, beginning on the day of Bush's second inauguration, I've decided to create a series of artwork exploring each of the fourteen characteristics and displaying the ways America fits into each.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienHTF

Characteristic 1 - POWERFUL AND CONTINUING EXPRESSIONS OF NATIONAL PRIDE
"From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia." Gee... lots of flag-waving? Where have I seen THAT before...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienHTF

Characteristic 2 - DISDAIN FOR THE IMPORTANCE OF HUMAN RIGHTS
"The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation."

We all know the Holocaust was a human rights nightmare. Americans usually have that drilled into them by the time they graduate from high school. What most Americans DON'T know, however, is that we are currently creating a nightmare of our own. Torture is becoming more and more widely accepted as a valid interrogation technique at prisons for war criminals and terrorists. There have been reports of various versions: sensory deprivation (the prisoner is blindfolded and fitted with ear and nose plugs and left completely with no senses for extreme periods of time), sleep deprivation, loud music, and of course, complete degradation (as was the case at Abu Gharib). As a matter of fact, the reason Guantanamo Bay is such an ideal location for a prisoner camp is because it is not on U.S. soil, so technically the prisoners aren't granted rights such as due process as guaranteed by our Constitution. Usually, they are sealed off from everything-- they don't get a phone call, they can't see a lawyer, and they can't even talk to their families. What's worse is that many of the prisoners in Cuba AREN'T terrorists at all-- Amnesty International maintains that they are guilty of nothing more than petty visa infractions. Yet, the Bush administration continues to encourage this rampant violation of human rights (even appointing Alberto Gonzales, who has authorized the use of torture in these camps and denounced Geneva Convention laws as "obsolete", as Attorney General). NOW can you see the Hitler comparison a little bit clearer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienHTF


Characteristic 3 - IDENTIFICATION OF ENEMIES/SCAPEGOATS AS A UNIFYING CAUSE
"The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite 'spontaneous' acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and 'terrorists.' Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly."

Hitler targeted many groups of people as enemies of his state, including communists, gypsies, blacks, and of course, most notably the Jews. In November of 1938, following the assassination of a prominent Nazi official, the German government coordinated a pogrom (a massive attack aimed at complete annihilation of a people and their environment) on several Jewish ghettoes. The event, known as Kristallnact (or "Night of Broken Glass", after all the smashed storefronts), was one of the first examples of Hitler's anti-Semitism manifested as actual violence. Synagogues were burned, stores were looted, and people were killed just for "looking Jewish".

Flash forward more than 60 years later. Bush and his cronies on the religious right ALSO have their enemies. Liberals, the French, gays and Muslims/Arab Americans are all prime targets at home, while the war in Iraq becomes America's very own pogrom. From Baghdad to Fallujah, innocent lives are being taken (100,000 Iraqi civilians and climbing) and mosques are being laid to waste. And just like the citizens of Nazi Germany, many Americans don't notice because the victims are "the enemy".
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienHTF



Characteristic 4 - THE SUPREMACY OF THE MILITARY / AVID MILITARISM
"Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite."

Here we see two prime examples of militarism gone awry. On the left, the Axis Powers of WWII (represented by Mussolini, Hitler, and Hirohito). At the height of their control, nearly all of Europe was occupied by Axis forces, as you can see by the map, as well as a great deal of the Pacific (not shown).

And on the other side of the center line, the Project for the New American Century, commonly known as the PNAC. Headed by William Kristol, the PNAC is a Washington-based organization that aims to make the entire rest of the world more conducive to American leadership. The list of prominent members includes several key Bush administration officials, including Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, and Paul Wolfowitz. The PNAC is a neoconservative group that views America as an imperial power, and hopes to further its goals by any means necessary, including military brute force. Apparently, these guys have failed to learn from history. MILITARY EMPIRES ALWAYS FAIL! Shown in red on the map below are countries that have either allied themselves militarily with the U.S. or have been/will soon be occupied by U.S. troops. Of special note here is Iran. Brace yourselves, folks, because it seriously looks like Iran is next. The Bush administration, with John Bolton's guidance, has decided to prepare itself for military action in Iran by June.

DamienHTF
is an artist on dA who is doing a series on fascism, using Dr. Laurence W. Britt's 14 points of fascism.
__________________
not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh
Ibby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 03:23 PM   #7
Ibby
erika
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: "the high up north"
Posts: 6,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Laurence Britt
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
Emphasis mine.
__________________
not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

Last edited by Ibby; 04-24-2007 at 04:51 PM.
Ibby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 04:46 PM   #8
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
Interestingly, the English dictionary has a very different definition to that of the American dictionary:

Quote:

fascism
/fashiz’m/

• noun 1 an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government. 2 extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

— DERIVATIVES fascist noun & adjective fascistic adjective.

— ORIGIN Italian fascismo, from fascio ‘bundle, political group’, from Latin fascis ‘bundle’.

That was OED and Cambridge defines it :
Quote:
Fascism

noun {U}

a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control and extreme pride in country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed
fascist

adjective (ALSO fascistic)

- fascist groups

- a fascist dictator/regime

fascist

noun {C}

1 someone who supports fascism


2 a person of the far right in politics
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 05:42 PM   #9
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
What American dictionary are you referring to?
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 05:56 PM   #10
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibram View Post
I've decided to create a series of artwork exploring each of the fourteen characteristics and displaying the ways America fits into each.
In this case, let's call it "defining fascism down".

Mussolini and Franco rigidly controlled all media, films, and arts for propaganda purposes. But Bush is a fascist!

Pinochet ordered a death squad called the "Caravan of Death" to execute 71 of his biggest enemies in the Army, even though they were already under arrest. But the PNAC, they're fascists!

Suharto killed up to a million members of the opposition political party. But Bush...!

(H*tl*r shall remain unmentioned due to Godwin's Law.)
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 06:02 PM   #11
Ibby
erika
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: "the high up north"
Posts: 6,127
I didnt make the art, I'm only advertising.

But you can't deny bush and his regime fits into most of the catagories, albeit not NEARLY to the terrible extremes of the 'real' fascist dictators.

Call him a protofascist, if you like. Call him a fascist-in-training. Call him a terrible president or an enemy of freedom, or even just a dumbass.
But don't call him good, or just, or anything of the sort.
__________________
not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh
Ibby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 06:07 PM   #12
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
It's merely garden-variety right-wing policy combined with incompetency. To go further than that is simply Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 06:09 PM   #13
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
He's not a fascist dictator, he's a fascist president.
He does the best he can with the power he has, but could never match a dictator for total effectiveness.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 06:15 PM   #14
Happy Monkey
I think this line's mostly filler.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
As he said himself.
__________________
_________________
|...............| We live in the nick of times.
| Len 17, Wid 3 |
|_______________| [pics]
Happy Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2007, 07:03 PM   #15
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
No dictator, no fascism.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:28 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.