The Israelis must be happy...

Aliantha · 06-16-2007, 02:22 AM

...the Palestinians are killing each other.

Undertoad · 06-16-2007, 09:57 AM

Fatah is now pretty much conceding the Gaza Strip to Hamas, meaning that we have a "two state solution" where one of the states is yet another Iran-sponsored terroristic Islamic state. The EU stopped funding the Pals when Hamas was elected, but they'll be fine now, somebody else stepped in:

Quote:

The leader of Hamas says he has been urged by Iran to continue their stand against Israel, as he announced that Iran will fund his party as western blockades against his government continue.

"We still look forward to get support [from Iran] to break the political and economic sanctions," Khaled Meshaal said on Tuesday during a visit to Iran.

Meshaal, who arrived in Iran early on Tuesday, told a press conference with Manouchehr Mottaki, the Iranian foreign minister, that Iran had been giving financial and political support to the Palestinians since Hamas took office in March last year.

Mottaki told reporters that Iran would continue to provide money to Hamas, but he did not give any figures.

Iran is known to have given $120 million to Hamas since it took office following its victory in the Palestinian legislative elections.

This won't go well.

elSicomoro · 06-16-2007, 10:55 AM

From MSNBC: The United States strengthened its offer of support for President Mahmoud Abbas on Saturday, telling him an international aid embargo against the Palestinians would end as soon as he forms a new government without Hamas, aides to Abbas and a Western diplomat said.

The Palestinians knew that electing Hamas would probably result in general ugliness. I think I understand why they did it, but they still knew the consequences.

The easiest solution, IMO, would have been for Fatah--backed by Israel and the US--to wipe out Hamas in Gaza. Of course, that too would have had some serious consequences down the line.

I dunno...sometimes, I think Abbas could be tougher. But given the general ugliness over there, maybe he's made the best moves he can.

SamIam · 06-16-2007, 01:30 PM

Well, if the Gaza strip contingent is going to survive, I guess Hamas and Egypt are going to have to be new best friends. Israel has cut off its border with Gaza, and the rest of the world is not going to be excited about helping out a terrorist backed group. The entire situation looks very bleak to me. And stupid.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-16-2007, 01:41 PM

Iran is giving Hamas millions of dollars. I doubt folding those dollars into paper airplanes will be much of a threat to anyone, if they wear their glasses to keep from getting their eye poked out. I also doubt the dollars have much nutritional value.
This money has to be converted into bread and bullets, that's the key. Who is trading with Hamas. Who is suppling the means to not only survive, but wage war?

SamIam · 06-16-2007, 01:44 PM

Well, they've been smuggling weapons across the border from Egypt, so some of Iran's money is going to something other than paper airplanes.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-16-2007, 01:47 PM

OK, Egypt. Who else?

piercehawkeye45 · 06-16-2007, 06:12 PM

Supposedly Hamas is going to try to be more accepting and perform actions that do best for the country. For example, they didn't want to take over Gaza but they did it to end the civil war in the area.

Tough to prove them wrong but doubtful...

xoxoxoBruce · 06-17-2007, 12:01 AM

I just saw a headline, "Israel praises Hamas-free cabinet", and it dawned on me that this maybe what's needed to bring peace to the Israelis and Palestinians.... a common enemy.

Aliantha · 06-17-2007, 01:43 AM

I reckon that's more wishful thinking that a likely outcome Bruce.

BrianR · 06-17-2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

OK, Egypt. Who else?

Personally, I suspect Jordan.

piercehawkeye45 · 06-17-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I just saw a headline, "Israel praises Hamas-free cabinet", and it dawned on me that this maybe what's needed to bring peace to the Israelis and Palestinians.... a common enemy.

I don't think that is going to work. I believe that a lot of Palestinians do want peace even if it is to ally with Israel I don't know if having Hamas as the common enemy will work.

I can not be certain but you have to know what the majority of Palestinians don't like to know how to gain peace. If the Palestininas blame the violence created by Hamas and Fatah on Isreal, that will not work. If they blame the violence on Hamas and Fatah alone, then it may.

tw · 06-17-2007, 07:46 PM

Welcome to what the knowledgeable were warning of when George Jr's administration called for Palestinian elections. Widespread were the warning that Israel had made Fatah too unpopular; that Hamas would become the new power broker. As usual, moderates who used facts and reality were correct. George Jr's political agenda again creates instability, refugees, and the death of innocent people.

Let's see. Saddam was on the verge of falling in Iraq. Instead George Jr created this massive Iraqi civil war. American surrogates in Somalia have now restored violence in Mogadishu and restarted another flood of refugees. Because the mental midget said "Americans don't do nation building", now the Taliban have now taken back half of Afghanistan. Insurgents even in southern Thailand have now learned why explosive technology as a terrorist weapon will make them more powerful (George Jr will also call then Al Qaeda?). Nuclear non-proliferation treaty is being trashed so that George Jr can sell India more nuclear bomb material - making it necessary even for Turkey to start a nuclear weapons program. Russia is now warming of a new Cold War because of so many unilateral and threatening actions by Pres Cheney (no wonder he wanted a war with China over a silly spy plane).

Palestine is only another tip of the George Jr iceberg to promote war and instability all over the world. Even democracy and western influence is waning in S America because of these same George Jr 'political agendas". Now wonder the only round of international trade talks to fail (the Doha round) occurred when an MBA George Jr (and wacko extremist Cheney) were in power. Even Castro now has become more popular throughout the world.

Meanwhile, when do we go after bin Laden? bin Laden is not part of a Cheney political agenda - America be damned - contempt for the American soldier blatant. Palestine is but another example of what George Jr's administration promoted and advocated - even when warned by intelligent people of these consequences.

Urbane Guerrilla · 06-17-2007, 08:10 PM

Like you respect the American soldier or American foreign policy this decade or any other, tw?

Like hell you do, kiddo. We know you don't.

All our greatest human troubles spring from the world's non-democracies. No non-democracies, then darn few problems, let alone great troubles.

piercehawkeye45 · 06-17-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

All our greatest human troubles spring from the world's non-democracies. No non-democracies, then darn few problems, let alone great troubles.

You have to look deeper than that if you want to find why they have troubles.

06-16-2007, 02:22 AM	#1
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	The Israelis must be happy... ...the Palestinians are killing each other. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

06-16-2007, 01:41 PM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Iran is giving Hamas millions of dollars. I doubt folding those dollars into paper airplanes will be much of a threat to anyone, if they wear their glasses to keep from getting their eye poked out. I also doubt the dollars have much nutritional value. This money has to be converted into bread and bullets, that's the key. Who is trading with Hamas. Who is suppling the means to not only survive, but wage war? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-16-2007, 01:47 PM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	OK, Egypt. Who else? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-17-2007, 12:01 AM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I just saw a headline, "Israel praises Hamas-free cabinet", and it dawned on me that this maybe what's needed to bring peace to the Israelis and Palestinians.... a common enemy. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-17-2007, 01:43 AM	#10
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I reckon that's more wishful thinking that a likely outcome Bruce. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

06-16-2007, 10:55 AM	#3
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	From MSNBC: The United States strengthened its offer of support for President Mahmoud Abbas on Saturday, telling him an international aid embargo against the Palestinians would end as soon as he forms a new government without Hamas, aides to Abbas and a Western diplomat said. The Palestinians knew that electing Hamas would probably result in general ugliness. I think I understand why they did it, but they still knew the consequences. The easiest solution, IMO, would have been for Fatah--backed by Israel and the US--to wipe out Hamas in Gaza. Of course, that too would have had some serious consequences down the line. I dunno...sometimes, I think Abbas could be tougher. But given the general ugliness over there, maybe he's made the best moves he can.

06-16-2007, 01:30 PM	#4
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	Well, if the Gaza strip contingent is going to survive, I guess Hamas and Egypt are going to have to be new best friends. Israel has cut off its border with Gaza, and the rest of the world is not going to be excited about helping out a terrorist backed group. The entire situation looks very bleak to me. And stupid.

06-16-2007, 01:44 PM	#6
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	Well, they've been smuggling weapons across the border from Egypt, so some of Iran's money is going to something other than paper airplanes.

06-16-2007, 06:12 PM	#8
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Supposedly Hamas is going to try to be more accepting and perform actions that do best for the country. For example, they didn't want to take over Gaza but they did it to end the civil war in the area. Tough to prove them wrong but doubtful...

06-17-2007, 07:46 PM	#13
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Welcome to what the knowledgeable were warning of when George Jr's administration called for Palestinian elections. Widespread were the warning that Israel had made Fatah too unpopular; that Hamas would become the new power broker. As usual, moderates who used facts and reality were correct. George Jr's political agenda again creates instability, refugees, and the death of innocent people. Let's see. Saddam was on the verge of falling in Iraq. Instead George Jr created this massive Iraqi civil war. American surrogates in Somalia have now restored violence in Mogadishu and restarted another flood of refugees. Because the mental midget said "Americans don't do nation building", now the Taliban have now taken back half of Afghanistan. Insurgents even in southern Thailand have now learned why explosive technology as a terrorist weapon will make them more powerful (George Jr will also call then Al Qaeda?). Nuclear non-proliferation treaty is being trashed so that George Jr can sell India more nuclear bomb material - making it necessary even for Turkey to start a nuclear weapons program. Russia is now warming of a new Cold War because of so many unilateral and threatening actions by Pres Cheney (no wonder he wanted a war with China over a silly spy plane). Palestine is only another tip of the George Jr iceberg to promote war and instability all over the world. Even democracy and western influence is waning in S America because of these same George Jr 'political agendas". Now wonder the only round of international trade talks to fail (the Doha round) occurred when an MBA George Jr (and wacko extremist Cheney) were in power. Even Castro now has become more popular throughout the world. Meanwhile, when do we go after bin Laden? bin Laden is not part of a Cheney political agenda - America be damned - contempt for the American soldier blatant. Palestine is but another example of what George Jr's administration promoted and advocated - even when warned by intelligent people of these consequences.

06-17-2007, 08:10 PM	#14
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Like you respect the American soldier or American foreign policy this decade or any other, tw? Like hell you do, kiddo. We know you don't. All our greatest human troubles spring from the world's non-democracies. No non-democracies, then darn few problems, let alone great troubles. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

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