XXXXX Them to Hell! New Katrina Video

A new videotape has just been released showing that Bush was warned about the levees and the problems involved with the superdome before Katrina ever hit. From here

... warnings of the coming destruction — breached or overrun levees, deaths at the New Orleans Superdome and overwhelming needs for post-storm rescues — were delivered in dramatic terms to all involved.

All of it was captured on videotape.

The Associated Press obtained the confidential government video and made it public Wednesday, offering Americans their own inside glimpse into the government's fateful final Katrina preparations after months of fingerpointing and political recriminations.

"My gut tells me ... this is a bad one and a big one," then-federal disaster chief Michael Brown told the final government-wide briefing the day before Katrina struck the Gulf Coast on Aug. 29.

The video prompted Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill to reiterate their calls for a new investigation into the federal response to Katrina. House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi of California said Thursday the video "points out the need for an independent commission" to review events surrounding the hurricane.

Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid of Nevada said the video "confirms what we have suspected all along, that this Administration did anything they can to hide what really happened." He said the administration "systematically misled the American people."

[mrnoodle]

What?

When Harry Reid talks, I stop listening. Is this supposed to mean that the administration caused the hurricane? That they "hid" it? What should we do with this information?

They lied through their teeth, Noodle. Bush whined on and on that no one thought the levees would fail. This new video shows him being warned in no uncertain terms that this was likely to happen.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by marichiko

They lied through their teeth, Noodle. Bush whined on and on that no one thought the levees would fail. This new video shows him being warned in no uncertain terms that this was likely to happen.

I think the reflex Bush-haters are making a lot of hay here by ignoring the difference between "overrun" and "breached".

"Overrun" to me suggests waves washing over the top of a levy due to storm surge (with the water able to drain away), contrasted with a levy being *breached*, a total mechanical failure with the levy no longer holding back the waters it contained before the storm, obviously a much more severe problem.

As the newsletter editor of the Phil-Mont Mobile Radio Club, I've had occasion this week to review the club archives regarding their emergency operations in the Delaware Valley during the flooding associated with Hurricane Diane in August of 1955. That storm is of particular interest to me because I remeber it quite well: I was three years old and living in New Hope PA at the time...so it left quite an impression to be persisting fifty years later.

With that for comparison, I'll keep my own counsel as to who I think is "whining" today.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I remember that storm very well, too, Maggie. It torn up New England pretty well.
When the 30 ft wide, 2 foot deep Scantic River became a half mile wide and took out the only bridge to get off our mountain, it took the Army three weeks to come and put up a Bailey bridge.
I thought that was pretty damn good considering we were just less than 100 people in no danger, we even had power, just couldn't go to work.
Meanwhile the cities and towns along the Conneticut River were really fucked up and hundreds of bridges, all over the map, were gone.
I liked Ike.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

What should we do with this information?

Well, it's proof that Bush lied when he said that nobody expected the levees to fail. If you like to impeach presidents who lie, you could start there. Of course, he wasn't under oath, so it doesn't count. Right?

Edit: Marichiko beat me by a few minutes. My habit of opening all unread threads in a new tab in Firefox and then reading through them sometimes hurts my response time.

What do you all now think of Brown in light of these new revelations? He seems more on the ball then any of the idiots in the administration would have us believe. Was he a scapegoat?

More from The LA Times

[glatt]

This shows that Brown knew what was coming and told Bush. Talking about the problem is only half the battle. You're supposed to act on that knowledge. Did Brown actually do anything?

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by glatt

snip
Edit: Marichiko beat me by a few minutes. My habit of opening all unread threads in a new tab in Firefox and then reading through them sometimes hurts my response time.

Sure Glatt, everybody knows by now that you are a chronic and habitual Marichiko post–cribber. You have a monkey on your back. We want to help you, but you have to admit you have a problem.

BTW, noodle, I don't think anyone is saying bush could have stopped the hurricane, (at least anyone who is taking their meds) I think they object to his being more full of shit than the Agean stables.

Just my take.

[tw]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

What should we do with this information?

Impeach George Jr and repeatedly cite this post as an example of mrnoodle who is so politically brainwashed as to deny. Two solutions. Does mrnoodle have any? I didn't think so.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I wasn’t privy to the filmed briefing for the administration or the information the feds have available.
I only have the weather channel, the media and the internet. However, I knew the Gulf coast was in deep shit several days before Katrina hit.
If I knew, why didn’t the people that lived there know? Why were they waiting for the governments, state and federal to tell them? A shitload of people did leave before Katrina hit, I know some of them. Did they sneak out like the Baltimore Colts, in the middle of the night, without telling their neighbors?

We already know politicians are scum.
We already knew Bush is a lying bastard or the stupidest schmuck on the face of the Earth. I’ll go with the former.
This story simply confirms what we already knew, but to his longtime supporters, it won’t matter.

But I still don't know what the point of this information is, beyond "SEE?!?!? BUSH IS TEH EVILZ!!"

To reaffirm that “We The People” have to get off our collective asses and hold their feet to the fire. All of them, every “public servant”, whether elected, appointed or hired. And if they don’t respond, throw them out. It’s as much our fault as it is their’s.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I wasn’t privy to the filmed briefing for the administration or the information the feds have available.
I only have the weather channel, the media and the internet. However, I knew the Gulf coast was in deep shit several days before Katrina hit.
If I knew, why didn’t the people that lived there know? Why were they waiting for the governments, state and federal to tell them? A shitload of people did leave before Katrina hit, I know some of them. Did they sneak out like the Baltimore Colts, in the middle of the night, without telling their neighbors?

We already know politicians are scum.
We already knew Bush is a lying bastard or the stupidest schmuck on the face of the Earth. I’ll go with the former.
This story simply confirms what we already knew, but to his longtime supporters, it won’t matter.


To reaffirm that “We The People” have to get off our collective asses and hold their feet to the fire. All of them, every “public servant”, whether elected, appointed or hired. And if they don’t respond, throw them out. It’s as much our fault as it is their’s.

You forget one very important thing, Bruce. Low income people who were just making it paycheck to paycheck. Katrina had the audacity to strike at the end of the month. A lot of low income people didn't have the money for a tank full of gas to get the hell out of Dodge or the price of a bus ticket. And where were they supposed to go? Where would they stay once they got there? Sure, if you had a car and the money for a tank of gas and friends somewhere willing to take you in, it was a no brainer. The people who ended up in the Superdome were the elderly, the handicapped, the sick, and the children - the people most in need of assistance and the precisely the people who did not get it.

Yes, every politician's feet should now be blackened over the flame of our national outrage. "Shudda planned," is a response lacking in understanding of the realities of life among the lower income members of our society.

[xoxoxoBruce]

The people that ended up in the Superdome are poster children, a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of people that didn't leave. People up where Buster lives just had to ride in out the best way they could but those along the coast were foolish to think they could beat that storm.
New Orleans was very, very lucky it didn't get a direct hit..... it would have been devastated by Katrina, before it flooded.

And where were they supposed to go?

Nowhere.....they were supposed to die. It's God's will.

[keryx]

Originally Posted by marichiko

"Shudda planned," is a response lacking in understanding of the realities of life among the lower income members of our society.

Having been a member of the lower income society, I disagree.

I planned, saved, and went without a lot of the niceties I now enjoy. Granted, I was only supporting myself on the $7800.00 ($650.00/month) I made, but I was able to buy food, pay rent, electric, water, and phone bills, and still keep enough stashed for an emergency, all without a dime of public assistance. Certainly if I had children it would have been a little different, but the people I knew that had children that were in a comparable income bracket to me got A LOT of public aid, that set those who had children on the same footing as those of us without.

Reality is that you should never live beyond your means, keep a reserve because life can be unpredictable, and don't whine about the choices you make or the priorities you set.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I have little sympathy for those in our society that make bad choices and then expect the rest of us to fix it for them.

I've made bad choices (I doubt there's anyone on this planet that hasn't), suffered the consequences, and worked hard to set my life straight.


Oh, and as far as the problems with the levees in NOLA go, the most likely candidates to report problems with the levees may perhaps have been those who were supposed to be doing maintenance on them. On the scenes kind of people. The Army Corps of Enginneers. They did report that the levees weren't strong enough to hold back a category 3. But nothing was done because of problems at the state and local levels (ie, payoffs to the right people.) This has been a LA problem long before W was president.

[mrnoodle]

So you think they thought the levees would fail? Or that Brown, who until this point has been a favorite target of the anti-Bush crowd, is now a martyr? Or maybe that there was something they could have done in the 24 hours between Brown's warning and Katrina's landfall? I'm always willing to believe that a politician has lied, or at least that their handlers have caused them to. But I still don't know what the point of this information is, beyond "SEE?!?!? BUSH IS TEH EVILZ!!"

You think the mayor of NOLA and the LA governor would have responded if Bush had said, "You guys are hosed. We're sending our fleet of federal City Evacuation Busses to forcibly remove all your citizens from their homes, because your levees are going to fail tomorrow"? You think that a response of any kind on the federal level would have prevented the hurricane from doing the damage it did? Again, what did you want them to do with the information? Remember, it came from a "horse breeder with no experience" or whatever you were calling Brown a couple weeks ago.