Latest Iraq thread

[Undertoad]

http://www.boston.com/news/world/mid...urgents_clash/

By Lauren Frayer / Associated Press / November 11, 2007
BAGHDAD - Former Sunni insurgents asked the United States to stay away, and then ambushed members of Al Qaeda in Iraq, killing 18 in a battle that raged for hours north of Baghdad, an ex-insurgent leader and Iraqi police said yesterday.

The Islamic Army in Iraq sent advance word to Iraqi police requesting that US helicopters keep out of the area because its fighters had no uniforms and were indistinguishable from Al Qaeda, according to the police and a top Islamic Army leader known as Abu Ibrahim.

Abu Ibrahim said his fighters killed 18 Al Qaeda militants and captured 16 in the fight southeast of Samarra, a mostly Sunni city about 60 miles north of Baghdad.

"We found out that Al Qaeda intended to attack us, so we ambushed them at 3 p.m. on Friday," Abu Ibrahim said. He would not say whether any Islamic Army members were killed.

but that's not all... better news:

Meanwhile, farther east, in Diyala Province, members of another former insurgent group, the 1920s Revolution Brigades, launched a military-style operation yesterday against Al Qaeda in Iraq, the Iraqi Army said.

About 60 militants were captured and handed over to Iraqi soldiers, an Army officer said on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to speak to media.

Afterward, hundreds of people paraded through Buhriz, about 35 miles north of Baghdad, witnesses said. Many danced and fired their guns into the air, shouting "Down with Al Qaeda!" and "Diyala is for all Iraqis!"

[piercehawkeye45]

http://www.twincities.com/ci_7490271...nclick_check=1

BAGHDAD - Taking advantage of a dramatic drop in car bombings and sectarian murders, Baghdad residents are once again venturing out to local markets and restaurants after dark in many parts of the city. They're celebrating weddings and birthdays in public places and eating grilled carp on the Tigris River late into the night.....

[TheMercenary]

On a Deadly Day, U.S. Reports Drop in Iraq Attacks

BAGHDAD, Nov. 18 — An American official announced Sunday that attacks and attempted attacks across Iraq last week dipped to their lowest point for any week since January of last year, and that attacks had dropped by more than half since the United States increased its troop levels in June.

The official, Rear Adm. Gregory Smith, made the announcement at a news conference here, adding that civilian deaths have dropped by three-quarters since June as well. But even as officials were announcing the figures, Iraq had once of its deadliest days in weeks, with 22 people killed in attacks nationwide.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/wo...hp&oref=slogin

[ZenGum]

BAGHDAD - Former Sunni insurgents asked the United States to stay away, and then ambushed members of Al Qaeda in Iraq, killing 18 in a battle that raged for hours north of Baghdad, an ex-insurgent leader and Iraqi police said yesterday.

At face value this is good news. But I'm not sure we should take it at face value. There are plenty of groups in Iraq that are rivals for local power and influence. Did this group decide to take out their foes, and had the bright idea to keep the US off their backs by telling them they were going after AQ? Maybe, maybe not.

The surge has peaked, and the drawdown has begun. It certain has bought Iraq some breathing space. But it was crucial that the Iraqis get full value from this opportunity to build political stability. They've done a little but not much that I can see. Will this stability last? I doubt it but time will tell.

Meanwhile here is a less upbeat analysis via the Australian ABC, citing Professor Hugh White, the head of Canberra's Strategic and Defence Studies Centre.

His report is that Afghanistan would take a generation or more to turn into a stable, self-governing country, but that this would make little strategic difference because AQ can simply operate from a different county, such as Pakistan. Regardless, the coalition there now will likely get tired of constant bleeding for the next 30 years.
Iraq is strategically important, but White argues that the country would likewise take a generation or so stabilize, and he doesn't see the public will in the west to stay the course. Summarizing Iraq: keeping the troops in won't make it better, but pulling them out will make it a lot worse.
It seems to me that the best option is to stay there and take the losses. I'd hate to have to explain that to the mother of a fallen soldier.

[Undertoad]

Washington Post: Iraqis Joining Insurgency Less for Cause Than Cash

MOSUL, Iraq -- Abu Nawall, a captured al-Qaeda in Iraq leader, said he didn't join the Sunni insurgent group here to kill Americans or to form a Muslim caliphate. He signed up for the cash.

"I was out of work and needed the money," said Abu Nawall, the nom de guerre of an unemployed metal worker who was paid as much as $1,300 a month as an insurgent. He spoke in a phone interview from an Iraqi military base where he is being detained. "How else could I support my family?"

That's a lot of dough. Where does the money come from? Partly from Syria, partly from mobster activity:

The racketeering operations extended to nearly every type of business in the city, including a Pepsi plant, cement manufacturers and a cellphone company, which paid the insurgents $200,000 a month, Twitty said.

One of the biggest sources of income was a real estate scam, in which insurgents stole 26 ledgers that contained the deeds to at least $88 million worth of property and then resold them, according to Lt. Col. Eric Welsh, commander of the battalion responsible for Mosul.

...

U.S. forces detained a major al-Qaeda in Iraq financier Sept. 25 with a passport that showed he had been to Syria 30 times, according to a military summary of his capture.

Another man, captured by the Iraqi army Sept. 3, is thought to be the No. 1 al-Qaeda in Iraq financier in Nineveh province, responsible for negotiating the release of kidnapping victims, according to another military summary. It said he was found with checks totaling 775 million dinars, or $600,000.

Lastly, what remarkable reporting by the WaPo:

The Iraqi military, which is still interrogating Abu Nawall, agreed to allow a Washington Post reporter to meet him in person after repeated requests for an interview. The interview was canceled at the last moment, but the military later allowed The Post to speak with Abu Nawall by phone as he sat in an Iraqi general's office.

[tw]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

At face value this is good news. But I'm not sure we should take it at face value. There are plenty of groups in Iraq that are rivals for local power and influence.

Just another day in what is really only an American created civil war.

[Undertoad]

NY fucking Times: London, Glasgow terrorists had ties to AQI

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/wo...=1&oref=slogin

Investigators examining the bungled terrorist attacks in London and Glasgow six months ago believe the plotters had a link to Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, which would make the attacks the first that the group has been involved in outside of the Middle East, according to senior officials from three countries who have been briefed on the inquiry. The evidence pointing to the involvement of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia includes phone numbers of members of the Iraqi group found on the plotters’ cellphones recovered in Britain, a senior American intelligence official said.

[deadbeater]

Attacks that turned out to be very feeble? Good propaganda about the 'impotency' of Al-Qaeda.

[TheMercenary]

"AS 2007 comes to close, how should we understand the situation in Iraq? Are we witnessing the greatest American military comeback late in a war since Sherman’s march to the sea in 1864? Or is Iraq still a weakly governed and very violent place where sectarian reconciliation is starkly absent?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/22/op...=1&oref=slogin

[TheMercenary]

"The war's not over, but signs are the tide is turning

MEMO to ABC's Media Watch: Iraq is now "the good news story". The judgment comes not from the Pentagon, but from some of the war's fiercest critics, including The Guardian. This week, the British daily ran two reports describing how "hopes of a remarkable recovery are rising" and noting that Iraqis were "taking back the streets". When The Australian's political editor, Dennis Shanahan, reported from Iraq at the end of August that the Commander of US forces, General David Petraeus, would tell Congress that the troop surge was working, Media Watch accused him of being a "Coalition barracker". In fact, the surge was already having an impact and creating a more favourable sentiment by the US public to the war. Though the accuracy of his report was later confirmed, Media Watch had no qualms about using post-dated articles in an attempt to discredit Shanahan and this newspaper for its allegedly partisan reporting. "

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-16382,00.html

[TheMercenary]

"December 22, 2007 -- An uncertain chapter opened in Iraq this week, as British forces officially ceded control of Iraq's oil-rich southern province of Basra to the country's fledgling security services.

What comes next is unclear, but the handover is certainly evidence that - even in Iraq - time marches on.

The move formalizes the situation on the ground since September, when British forces retreated to the outskirts of the province's major city. By spring, only 2,500 British troops will remain in all of Iraq, almost exclusively in a support and training role.

In important ways, this is a good sign."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12222007...raq_528659.htm

[regular.joe]

It is a good sign I suppose. I agree with the professor from Australia, it will take more then a generation for the kind of change to take place that we are trying to facilitate.

Same in the Balkans, same anywhere.

Look at the U.S. the civil war was in the 1860's. It is the end of 2007 and there are still people who really believe that the south will rise again.

The civil war has been boiling for years before we got there, we just took the lid off. Believe me, Iraqi's care if you are a Sunni or Shia. We really don't give a damn. Over all U.S. policy has been a bit uneducated and naive, but not malicious. I know that just our presence in Iraq has a huge impact, as well as actions on the ground..good, bad, and indifferent; a civil war in Iraq does not help us, we did not set out to facilitate one. We are certainly aware that a civil war does not help the Iraqi's.

Unfortunately there are enough Iraqi's, and to an even larger extent foreign nationals, who believe that a civil war is what they want and need.

It is certainly a big ball of wax in Iraq. I am hard pressed to put a simplistic view to the the picture. And boy that is what we Americans want... simple, easy, prepared in 10 minutes or less. Oh, and if our congress makes a set of goals, well the Iraqi's better get with it. LOL. I am amazed at our arrogance sometimes. For the past few years and continuing through today, Iraq is like the proverbial banquet table where everyone has a fork that is too long. Different families, factions, clans, alliances, religious groups, countries, and individuals are all clamoring for what they think they deserve and will not give ground. This is made more complicated for us viewing from our couches because of the Iraqi/Arab/Muslim world view that most of us do not share or understand. Cause and affect are a way different hill of beans there.

O.K. my .02 for today.

[Griff]

Well said R.j. I just wish our leaders were willing to acknowlege the complexity before sticking their noses under the tent.

[slang]

TW? Your comment on the remotely encouraging or positive reports back from Iraq?

[Ibby]

So wait, lemme get this straight...
the brits pull out
the iraqis take over
it goes well
...and bush is right somehow?