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08-04-2006, 04:18 AM | #1 |
Flocci Non Facio
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In The Line Of Fire
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Iraq; Bad as it has been
Two senior US generals yesterday publicly agreed with a warning by Britain's outgoing ambassador to Iraq, William Patey, that the country is slipping towards civil war and partition.
"I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it in Baghdad in particular, and that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move toward civil war," General John Abizaid, the head of US Central Command, told the senate. General Peter Pace, the chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, agreed that "we do have the possibility of that devolving into civil war" and said only Iraqis could ultimately stop the slide. "Shia and Sunni are going to have to love their children more than they hate each other," Gen Pace said. The generals were responding to questions on Mr Patey's views, which caused a stir in the US after his valedictory memo to Tony Blair was leaked to the BBC. Mr Patey wrote: "The prospect of a low intensity civil war and a de facto division of Iraq is probably more likely at this stage than a successful and substantial transition to a stable democracy. "Even the lowered expectation of President Bush for Iraq - a government that can sustain itself, defend itself and govern itself and is an ally in the war on terror - must remain in doubt." The comments reflect an increasing impatience on both sides of the Atlantic with other resolutely upbeat assessments of the political leadership. Gen Abizaid's views were also more sombre than those expressed by the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, who was sitting alongside him at yesterday's Senate hearing. "A couple of days ago I returned from the Middle East. I've rarely seen it so unsettled or volatile," the general said. Neither Mr Patey nor Gen Abizaid described the situation as beyond repair. The British diplomat argued that Iraq's "position is not hopeless". He said much depended on the choices the Iraqi government made over the next six months, primarily in strengthening the Iraqi security forces. Among other moves, he proposed clamping down on the militia forces, in particular the Shia Mahdi army: "If we are to avoid a descent into civil war and anarchy, then preventing the Jaish al-Mahdi from developing into a state within a state, as Hizbullah has done in Lebanon, will be a priority." He predicted the country would remain "messy and difficult" for the next five to 10 years. Gen Abizaid's prognosis was similar. He described the coming battle with sectarian militias in Baghdad as "decisive" and suggested that the situation could "start moving towards equilibrium" in five years. But he added that the Iraq insurgency "has a lot of resiliency, it's probably going to last for some time even after US forces depart and hand over security control completely to the Iraqis". US troop reductions by the end of the year were possible but unlikely, the general said, arguing that the battle for Baghdad had priority. Mr Patey warned against a quick withdrawal of troops, stressing that talk of an early exit from Iraq would weaken the position of coalition soldiers who remain. Mr Blair played down the leak at his monthly press conference yesterday, saying the comments were in line with what the ambassador had been saying in public, and that it was imperative to "stay the course" in the battle with extremism. "That's what we're doing, and however tough it is we will see it through," Mr Blair said. "And actually, if you read the whole of the telegram, that's precisely what William is saying." British forces handed over Muthana province to Iraqi forces last month, the first of the country's 18 provinces to be transferred. In Basra, British commanders are planning a purge of mafia and militia elements in the police in what could be their last-ditch attempt to bring order to Iraq's Shia-dominated southern city. Major General Richard Shirreff, who is taking over command of the multinational forces in southern Iraq, has made clear he intends to adopt a tougher approach. British officers say Iraq is on a knife edge and have given the Iraqi government until the end of the year to impose its authority across the country. They say they are frustrated by the failure of the Baghdad government and local politicians to enforce their writ in Basra, where Shia militia have infiltrated the police. While Iraqi ministers have suggested the British army has not done enough to reduce the presence of the Shia militia, British commanders counter that Iraq is in danger of developing a "dependency culture". They are pinning their hopes on building a new national Iraqi army, though without great optimism, and have described the rest of the year as crucial in deciding whether Iraq will survive as a unitary state. Link |
08-04-2006, 09:00 AM | #2 | |
still eats dirt
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Location: Tampa, FL
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08-04-2006, 09:05 AM | #3 |
™
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 27,717
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I think you didn't get the memo. That was the plan all along. They meant to do that. And it's not a breeding ground so much as it is a terrorist magnet, so we can get them all in one spot to kill 'em easier.
edit: I forgot to add [/sarcasm] |
08-04-2006, 09:27 AM | #4 |
I think this line's mostly filler.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
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Ah, the good old flypaper strategy. Like building a super-dirty hospital to attract all the germs.
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_________________ |...............| We live in the nick of times. | Len 17, Wid 3 | |_______________| [pics] |
08-04-2006, 12:31 PM | #5 |
still eats dirt
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Location: Tampa, FL
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08-04-2006, 08:32 PM | #6 | |
Read? I only know how to write.
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Posts: 11,933
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It's already ugly. It already will get uglier no matter what America does. How many Americans still remain in denial? How many remain so anti-American as to say it does not involve them? Good. I am thinking of three Marines you then may have condemed to death for no reason. Kitsune has only said stated the obvious. Last edited by tw; 08-04-2006 at 09:10 PM. |
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08-04-2006, 08:40 PM | #7 | ||||||||||||
Read? I only know how to write.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,933
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Why is Iraq not yet acknowledged by every lurker here years ago? Facts were posted. Why so much denial? Maybe details will provide useful insight?
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08-04-2006, 08:43 PM | #8 | |||||
Read? I only know how to write.
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Posts: 11,933
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[continued from previous post]
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Major Concession on 4 Sep 2003 How bad was the administration's plan to end this war? What plan? Why could Saddam restore electricity and other civil services in a month? We can't even restore electricity four months later - and now make silly excuses. What does armour know about infrastructure? Nothing. This administration had no exit strategy nor even a plan how to restore the country. Classic MBA management technique. But it gets worse. From Washington comes a silly mandate that all Baath party members are to be banned from working. Even Patton confronted that silliness when he was told not to use Nazis. You wanted a job? Then you had sign silly papers and be a Nazi or Baath party member. Do we want the country back in order? Yes. Then Baath party members need be hired. But not according to George Jr and his man Bremer. They are evil. They signed those papers! ... [quote]The NY Times article is quite revealing about why the rest of Iraq is going chaotic. THE STRUGGLE FOR IRAQ: RECONSTRUCTION; 101st Airborne Scores Success In Northern Iraq on 4 Sept 2003 Section A Page 1 [continues in one last post] |
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08-04-2006, 08:57 PM | #9 | |||
Read? I only know how to write.
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Posts: 11,933
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[last of three consecutive posts]
So why do we so deny the obvious - a civil war created by the "Mission Accomplished" war? Why do we simply forget how often George Jr and his administration outrightly lied to us - and have not stopped? Why instead do we forget how obvious this civil war was as even Scowcroft and Brzezinski accurately detailed? Why do we forget how anti-American we were in our 'big dic' mentality back then as to even blame Linda Ronstadt and the Dixie Chicks for being absolutely correct? Quote:
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Review these posts to appreciate how obvious all this was back then. This civil war was predicted because of what America - mostly ill educated and religous fanatic supporters of George Jr - have accomplished. "Mission Accomplished". It was predictable and predicted how many years ago when so many American citizens were thinking with emotions rather than using blunt and brutal lessons from history. "Mission Accomplished". Meanwhile, I make no aplogies for stating facts up front and blunt without any regards to what adult children need - things stated politically correct. I am not politically correct. I am blunt honest. Either we put in those 500,000 troops now and settle this - or we get out. Those remain the only two viable options. Don't like it. Fine. "Not liking" is a silly emotion. Those remain the only two options. Either we are in or we are totally out. All other options will mean another Vietnam defeat. Anyone yet ready to make either hard decision - or have a better idea? Silence in The Cellar. How many other alternative were posted? Two years of silent now - and so many who so hate America as to blindly restate presidental impeachable lies. Last edited by tw; 08-04-2006 at 09:03 PM. |
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08-04-2006, 10:09 PM | #10 |
erika
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Aw man, tw, I was about to compliment you on your great but short post... then I realized the next three were yours too...
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08-05-2006, 01:18 AM | #11 |
Victim of gravity
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Gosh, tw, do you ever take any time to eat and sleep?
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08-05-2006, 08:51 AM | #12 | |
Read? I only know how to write.
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08-05-2006, 09:14 AM | #13 | |
Makes some feel uncomfortable
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He confuses people with his ambiguity! He muddles the issues with verbosity! Mild mannered tw, in his one-track goal to convince the general public that W is an incompetent asshole, fights for truth? Justice? The American Way? Who can tell???!!!
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08-05-2006, 09:15 AM | #14 | |
Slattern of the Swail
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I'm a 'glass is half full' kind of girl. Look at it this way: Before the US stormed in there and screwed up the country, they couldn't organize citizen protests AT ALL! I call it a Victory! [delusion/off] AHhahahahahahaha!
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In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum |
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08-05-2006, 09:02 PM | #15 | |
The future is unwritten
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An article in Discover Magazine called "The Future of Terrorism" said; (emphasis mine)
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