A Libertarian Review of Fahrenheit 9/11

Radar · 06-29-2004, 09:00 AM

Let me preface this by saying I am not a fan of Michael Moore's books or movies. I had to walk out of the theater for Bowling for Columbine because it was such blatant socialist propaganda I couldn't stand it. I tried to read his book, "Stupid White Men" but found the book to be so filled with ignorance and lies I felt dirty after just touching it.

That being said, I must admit I was hesitant to say the least about spending money to see the movie and putting any money in his pocket. But curiosity got the better of me and I laid out my $10 to see the movie last night.

This movie was jam packed with damning, factual, and truthful information about President Bush, the questionable means in which he became president, his handling of the so-called "war on terror", and even some personal stories of those who have lost people in unnecessary, unprovoked, unwarranted, and unconstitutional war in Iraq.

I was actually surprised to see Moore treat Bush as fairly as he did. Were I to make the movie, I'd have hit below the belt but Moore kept things on the up and up. The movie did have a bias against Bush, but was no more or less biased than Fox News on any given day. Moore also attacked the media for their complacency in this war.

Moore proved every single assertion he made and that's what the GOP hates the most. Moore makes a very strong case against the president and he backs it up with cold, hard, facts.

I'd recommend this movie to anyone who loves their country whether they are a fan of Bush or not. At the very least you might be surprised to hear about some of the connections between the Bush and Bin Laden families.

The movie was thoughtful, insightful, intelligent, witty, funny, and at times emotionally touching. This movie was the top movie in a blockbuster summer season and it opened in less than 900 theaters. If it had opened in wide release, it would have probably doubled the money it made.

Moore also didn't mention Israel because Israel has always been morally justified in everything they've done. They've always been defending against attackers and the Palestenians have always been the initiators of violence and starting the shit that Israel must step in and handle. Israel had nothing to do with September 11th and only an idiot would claim they did. Let's not blame the people who actually did it right, let's blame those they want to murder.

This is probably the best documentary I've ever seen or very close to it. I give this 5 stars out of 5 and recommend to anyone who did like this to rent the documentary, "Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky" because you'll probably like that too.

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws." - Mark Twain

Happy Monkey · 06-29-2004, 09:47 AM

To be fair, I expect that cigarettes do kill some of the germs that get sucked into the flame.

Undertoad · 06-29-2004, 09:53 AM

How could Moore be so wrong about gun control and so right about Bush. Perhaps he's right about gun control. Think about it.

Kitsune · 06-29-2004, 10:27 AM

I haven't seen it, yet, but will mark this down as something I must view while it is in the theaters.

I dropped by Movies.com to look for showtimes and found one of their poll options for the movie a little creepy in an unintentional way:

"It's not worth watching, even on an airplane."

Ouch.

Radar · 06-29-2004, 01:48 PM

Quote:

How could Moore be so wrong about gun control and so right about Bush. Perhaps he's right about gun control. Think about it.

No, he's couldn't be more wrong about gun control. All gun control laws are unconstitutional and illegal and any interpretation of the Constitution that says otherwise is invalid.

Undertoad · 06-29-2004, 02:59 PM

And yet, having read the transcript, he used the same techniques in both films.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-29-2004, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Moore also didn't mention Israel because Israel has always been morally justified in everything they've done.

Of course it has nothing to do with the possibility that the movie would never be shown if he did.

Kitsune · 06-29-2004, 09:28 PM

Just saw the movie, tonight. I went in knowing that I was going to see a very biased film with heavy political emphasis that would run the borderline of propaganda.

Overall: good film. The first film to run in an election year that specifically criticizes the incumbent. It also answered the question, "Who does the patriot act hurt?" by citing specific examples, including interviews, that were downright frightening.

I was already displeased with the actions of the current administration, so it probably won't mean anything to you when I say that I left the theater feeling completely disgusted with what we, as a country, have done.

Beestie · 06-29-2004, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitsune
It also answered the question, "Who does the patriot act hurt?" by citing specific examples, including interviews, that were downright frightening.

Please tell me, if you don't mind, more about this. I'll see the movie sooner or later but would like to know what the movie said about these disasterous acts.

Kitsune · 06-30-2004, 10:53 AM

Please tell me, if you don't mind, more about this. I'll see the movie sooner or later but would like to know what the movie said about these disasterous acts.

You'll have to see it, but essentially it has come out that citizens are, in fact, being spied upon and for not having done anything wrong and without a warrant. Again, this is how the movie portrays it, but an activist group in Fresno had a member join under a false name and that person was planted there to monitor the peace activists' activities and report them to the government.

Best part of the movie was a quick review of all the silly terror alerts that were issued. "Be on the lookout for model planes loaded with explosives..." "...terrorists may be using poisoned ink pens a-la James Bond..."

juju · 07-07-2004, 02:04 AM

Bowling for Columbine doesn't advocate gun control.

It says that gun ownership isn't the reason for gun deaths, and goes into the media's propagation of fear and paranoia as a potential reason.

Beestie · 07-07-2004, 03:54 AM

Welcome back.

Radar · 07-07-2004, 08:41 AM

Bowling for Columbine most certainly advocates gun control. They took kids from the Columbine shooting to K-Mart headquarters to tell them he had their bullets in him as though it were their fault. As though they did something wrong by selling bullets. They harassed Charleton Heston, and acted like people having guns were a bad thing or that more guns = more crime which is ludicrous.

Kitsune · 07-07-2004, 09:17 AM

I agree with Radar and was confused by those aspects of the movie. I was so pleased by the first 3/4ths of it or so as they explored each of the usual blames for gun violence and found examples to show that those reasons were not really valid. Gun ownership was explored and it was pointed out that citizens of other countries own just as many guns and they are just as readily available, but this refuted reason was still used in the end to advocate gun restrictions. I don't understand why Moore did this.

Personally, I really do agree with the whole "false fear" culture detailed in the movie and I think because of it our country is a lot worse off in many more ways than the gun violence that is spawned by it.

juju · 07-07-2004, 11:49 AM

Good point, I hadn't thought of that.

The whole Charlton Heston thing was pretty crummy. Editing his speech even more so.

06-29-2004, 09:00 AM	#1
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	A Libertarian Review of Fahrenheit 9/11 Let me preface this by saying I am not a fan of Michael Moore's books or movies. I had to walk out of the theater for Bowling for Columbine because it was such blatant socialist propaganda I couldn't stand it. I tried to read his book, "Stupid White Men" but found the book to be so filled with ignorance and lies I felt dirty after just touching it. That being said, I must admit I was hesitant to say the least about spending money to see the movie and putting any money in his pocket. But curiosity got the better of me and I laid out my $10 to see the movie last night. This movie was jam packed with damning, factual, and truthful information about President Bush, the questionable means in which he became president, his handling of the so-called "war on terror", and even some personal stories of those who have lost people in unnecessary, unprovoked, unwarranted, and unconstitutional war in Iraq. I was actually surprised to see Moore treat Bush as fairly as he did. Were I to make the movie, I'd have hit below the belt but Moore kept things on the up and up. The movie did have a bias against Bush, but was no more or less biased than Fox News on any given day. Moore also attacked the media for their complacency in this war. Moore proved every single assertion he made and that's what the GOP hates the most. Moore makes a very strong case against the president and he backs it up with cold, hard, facts. I'd recommend this movie to anyone who loves their country whether they are a fan of Bush or not. At the very least you might be surprised to hear about some of the connections between the Bush and Bin Laden families. The movie was thoughtful, insightful, intelligent, witty, funny, and at times emotionally touching. This movie was the top movie in a blockbuster summer season and it opened in less than 900 theaters. If it had opened in wide release, it would have probably doubled the money it made. Moore also didn't mention Israel because Israel has always been morally justified in everything they've done. They've always been defending against attackers and the Palestenians have always been the initiators of violence and starting the shit that Israel must step in and handle. Israel had nothing to do with September 11th and only an idiot would claim they did. Let's not blame the people who actually did it right, let's blame those they want to murder. This is probably the best documentary I've ever seen or very close to it. I give this 5 stars out of 5 and recommend to anyone who did like this to rent the documentary, "Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky" because you'll probably like that too. "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws." - Mark Twain __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

06-29-2004, 09:47 AM	#2
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	To be fair, I expect that cigarettes do kill some of the germs that get sucked into the flame. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

07-07-2004, 03:54 AM	#12
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	Welcome back. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

07-07-2004, 08:41 AM	#13
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Bowling for Columbine most certainly advocates gun control. They took kids from the Columbine shooting to K-Mart headquarters to tell them he had their bullets in him as though it were their fault. As though they did something wrong by selling bullets. They harassed Charleton Heston, and acted like people having guns were a bad thing or that more guns = more crime which is ludicrous. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

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06-29-2004, 09:53 AM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	How could Moore be so wrong about gun control and so right about Bush. Perhaps he's right about gun control. Think about it.

06-29-2004, 10:27 AM	#4
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	I haven't seen it, yet, but will mark this down as something I must view while it is in the theaters. I dropped by Movies.com to look for showtimes and found one of their poll options for the movie a little creepy in an unintentional way: "It's not worth watching, even on an airplane." Ouch.

06-29-2004, 02:59 PM	#6
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	And yet, having read the transcript, he used the same techniques in both films.

06-29-2004, 09:28 PM	#8
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Just saw the movie, tonight. I went in knowing that I was going to see a very biased film with heavy political emphasis that would run the borderline of propaganda. Overall: good film. The first film to run in an election year that specifically criticizes the incumbent. It also answered the question, "Who does the patriot act hurt?" by citing specific examples, including interviews, that were downright frightening. I was already displeased with the actions of the current administration, so it probably won't mean anything to you when I say that I left the theater feeling completely disgusted with what we, as a country, have done.

06-30-2004, 10:53 AM	#10
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Please tell me, if you don't mind, more about this. I'll see the movie sooner or later but would like to know what the movie said about these disasterous acts. You'll have to see it, but essentially it has come out that citizens are, in fact, being spied upon and for not having done anything wrong and without a warrant. Again, this is how the movie portrays it, but an activist group in Fresno had a member join under a false name and that person was planted there to monitor the peace activists' activities and report them to the government. Best part of the movie was a quick review of all the silly terror alerts that were issued. "Be on the lookout for model planes loaded with explosives..." "...terrorists may be using poisoned ink pens a-la James Bond..."

07-07-2004, 02:04 AM	#11
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Bowling for Columbine doesn't advocate gun control. It says that gun ownership isn't the reason for gun deaths, and goes into the media's propagation of fear and paranoia as a potential reason.

07-07-2004, 09:17 AM	#14
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	I agree with Radar and was confused by those aspects of the movie. I was so pleased by the first 3/4ths of it or so as they explored each of the usual blames for gun violence and found examples to show that those reasons were not really valid. Gun ownership was explored and it was pointed out that citizens of other countries own just as many guns and they are just as readily available, but this refuted reason was still used in the end to advocate gun restrictions. I don't understand why Moore did this. Personally, I really do agree with the whole "false fear" culture detailed in the movie and I think because of it our country is a lot worse off in many more ways than the gun violence that is spawned by it.

07-07-2004, 11:49 AM	#15
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Good point, I hadn't thought of that. The whole Charlton Heston thing was pretty crummy. Editing his speech even more so.

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