Only 5 Democratic Presidential Candidates Matter

elSicomoro · 01-06-2004, 09:52 PM

I could put this under politics, but it's my rant, so I'll put it here.

I don't like unsolicited calls, but I don't mind doing the phone surveys...I finished a 20-minute one with an apparent Democratic pollster earlier. It was actually good for me, because I had no idea who the Democratic candidates were in my Congressional district...now I do.

One of the questions that came up was, "If the presidential election were today, who would you vote for out of the 9 current Democratic candidates?" Which got me thinking...

The primary season starts this month, which will begin to thin the herd. Some will try to make their last stand, as they won't get so much publicity in their life again. But for some of them, they might as well call it a day already.

With less than two weeks to go before the Iowa Caucus, these are the 5 candidates that really matter...in my opinion, of course.

Howard Dean: Came from out of nowhere to take the lead. An easy target b/c he is now the front-runner...has had his share of gaffes recently. Liberal enough for liberals, yet could win some conservatives, particularly from the pro-gun crew.

Wesley Clark: Has bounced back from a rough start...not afraid to speak his mind. Could give Dean fits in the South.

John Kerry: Everybody loves a war vet...more or less. Will be interesting to see him and Dean face off in New England.

Dick Gephardt: Gephardt represents the old Democratic party--union base, fights for workers, stands up for middle America, blah blah blah. His weak leadership in the House is part of the reason the Dems are nearly pathetic these days.

Al Sharpton: He has absolutely no chance of winning, but he's been the clear winner of the debates I've watched thus far. He'll sell himself to the person that is most willing to take up minority concerns.

As I see it, it's going to boil down to Dean and Clark...and I don't think there will be any divisiveness in Boston come July: this means too much to the Democrats for them to fuck it up.

SteveDallas · 01-06-2004, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
this means too much to the Democrats for them to fuck it up.

doesn't mean they won't!

Especially if the party establishment can't get over this pathetic "we hate Dean because we didn't anoint him."

(I'm not a rabid Dean supporter. But it's way past time for the party hacks to get off their butts and realize that he's a serious candidate and they have to deal with him whether they like him or not.)

Griff · 01-07-2004, 06:38 AM

I listened to a fair chunk of the radio debate yesterday. NPR ran a lead-in sound biting each of the candidates promising free stuff. for everyone. Dean had more "right" answers than most and emphasized a balanced budget, he still comes off as defensive but the rest keep sniping at him. He picked up Bradleys endorsement recently. Lieberman was most often wrong being pro-war, anti-gay marriage... he'd be in the Republican right wing why he remains a Dem?.. Carol Mosely-Braun sounded less strident than usual and slipped a few personal things in that humanized her a bit... but seriously. Clark wimped out knowing that America is sick of Southern accents in the White House. Kerry still leaves no impression other than being mad at Dean. Gephardt sounds irrelevent and dated. Al didn't show either, to bad, this group is pretty boring. Dennis still comes off as a really unelectable nice guy.

Chewbaccus · 01-07-2004, 05:48 PM

Kerry comes off as being anti-Dean, because at this point to come off as anything more could land him in Dean's boat as well. Reveal anything to the field to shoot at, and you can be sure they'll take the shot.

As it stands, Dean's been so publicized, even if he wins New Hampshire free and clear, it won't really generate any interest. He's in the poor position of only being able to leave NH doing "as expected" or worse. Iowa will trim the fat, NH will show who's got the strength to be the real contenders, come South Carolina, we'll see who's where.

I still firmly believe that if any Dem is going to beat Bush, it's going to be Kerry. He has the war record to counter Bush, the Republicans will be pounding the 9/11 drum all campaign (their politicizing the WTC site this year still turns my stomach - any such politicizing would do so, no matter what party is on the dais) but the IAFF (the firefighter's union) endorses Kerry. Now that's a battle I want to see play out.

Less than 2 weeks to Iowa...here we go, kids.

elSicomoro · 01-07-2004, 07:34 PM

I read something the other day that basically compared Dean to Mondale and Dukakis...WTF?

Lieberman won't get anywhere, simply because he is Jewish. We don't even have to go into the Republican in Democrat's clothing spiel.

I disagree with you on the Southern issue, Griff. We've had 3 in a row (more or less)...if it were the right guy, people would go with pretty much anyone.

Kerry doesn't have the moxie to pull it off, IMO. He comes across too much like...ummm...Dukakis.

I think February 3 is going to be more interesting than Super Tuesday: Arizona, Washington, Missouri and South Carolina. The hardy conservatives in SC, the insane liberals in WA, the old people in AZ, a good chunk of black folk in MO and SC...a pretty good representation of the nation in just 4 states.

Griff · 01-07-2004, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore

I disagree with you on the Southern issue, Griff. We've had 3 in a row (more or less)...if it were the right guy, people would go with pretty much anyone.

By America I meant...me.

elSicomoro · 01-07-2004, 07:49 PM

Yeah, like you're representative of most Americans...or me...or most of the Cellar for that matter...

warch · 01-11-2004, 07:29 PM

I'm still leaning Dean, even with the gaffes, even with the inverted RNC strategery. Who would want this job?

He aint perfect, but he's better. I admire his moxy. Clark strikes me as the complete puppet. Kerry-ineffective, Lieberman not a leader, and Gephardt- milktoast. Mosley Braun is refreshing, Dennis intends too much goodness, and that would surely be disasterous. Al, well hes got to do better at explaining his 3K hotel room.
It will be very interesting to watch the absurd and massive Bush war chest launch into action. Dean or whoever is going to be hunted, raked over the coals, twisted, attacked, repeatedly. Its an ugly game, but I'll be pulling for Dean. If the diverse body of non Bush supporters can get smart and get interested, there is a chance for change. If the dems scatter, and destruct with the delightful help of the Reps...score another for Rove. Unless the spy-out thing catches up. But I suppose the timing can be manipulated.

elSicomoro · 01-11-2004, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by warch
Clark strikes me as the complete puppet.

Of whom?

warch · 01-12-2004, 10:04 AM

Well the strategists point to the Clinton political factions of the Dems. The curiousity of a handsome democratic general, the longshot at Bush, but a no-lose situation really- gaining experience in prep for a Hillary assist run next time.

You could also point to the defense contractors for whom he was a lobbyist. Its kinda weird to have a lobbyist candidate, but then again, I guess not.

He keeps talking about bringing us out of our dysfunction, using the leadership and management experience he gained in the military. That's a bit freaky to me, but then again I guess it shouldnt be.

elSicomoro · 01-16-2004, 10:55 PM

Moseley Braun is out, gives support to Dean, people ask, "Who is Carol Moseley Braun?"

Why is Terry McAuliffe still the head of the DNC?

The Dems have plenty of ammo, and they're just standing there, scared as shit to shoot. Of course, we're talking about Dems here...

And Zell Miller is going to campaign for Bush. I respect Miller for his recent blunt criticism of the Dems, and his pro-gun stance. But campaigning for Bush? He's not running for another term in the Senate, so I guess he's got nothing to lose.

I know if we have to, we'll make it through more or less, but I can't imagine the Bush administration being in office another 4 years...Goddamn, that's scary.

Undertoad · 01-17-2004, 08:37 AM

Scary? What's your worst fear?

xoxoxoBruce · 01-17-2004, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by warch
Its kinda weird to have a lobbyist candidate, but then again, I guess not.
That's a bit freaky to me, but then again I guess it shouldnt be.

I too, get these feelings of the head says it's OK but the gut feeling is something is amiss.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-17-2004, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
Scary? What's your worst fear?

Radar for president.

elSicomoro · 01-17-2004, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
Scary? What's your worst fear?

Hmmm...it's a tie.

--That the Bush administration (and in particular, the greatest embarrassment of the state of Missouri) will chip away more of our freedoms.

--That we will get dragged into another costly and unnecessary war.

01-06-2004, 09:52 PM	#1
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Only 5 Democratic Presidential Candidates Matter I could put this under politics, but it's my rant, so I'll put it here. I don't like unsolicited calls, but I don't mind doing the phone surveys...I finished a 20-minute one with an apparent Democratic pollster earlier. It was actually good for me, because I had no idea who the Democratic candidates were in my Congressional district...now I do. One of the questions that came up was, "If the presidential election were today, who would you vote for out of the 9 current Democratic candidates?" Which got me thinking... The primary season starts this month, which will begin to thin the herd. Some will try to make their last stand, as they won't get so much publicity in their life again. But for some of them, they might as well call it a day already. With less than two weeks to go before the Iowa Caucus, these are the 5 candidates that really matter...in my opinion, of course. Howard Dean: Came from out of nowhere to take the lead. An easy target b/c he is now the front-runner...has had his share of gaffes recently. Liberal enough for liberals, yet could win some conservatives, particularly from the pro-gun crew. Wesley Clark: Has bounced back from a rough start...not afraid to speak his mind. Could give Dean fits in the South. John Kerry: Everybody loves a war vet...more or less. Will be interesting to see him and Dean face off in New England. Dick Gephardt: Gephardt represents the old Democratic party--union base, fights for workers, stands up for middle America, blah blah blah. His weak leadership in the House is part of the reason the Dems are nearly pathetic these days. Al Sharpton: He has absolutely no chance of winning, but he's been the clear winner of the debates I've watched thus far. He'll sell himself to the person that is most willing to take up minority concerns. As I see it, it's going to boil down to Dean and Clark...and I don't think there will be any divisiveness in Boston come July: this means too much to the Democrats for them to fuck it up.

01-07-2004, 06:38 AM	#3
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I listened to a fair chunk of the radio debate yesterday. NPR ran a lead-in sound biting each of the candidates promising free stuff. for everyone. Dean had more "right" answers than most and emphasized a balanced budget, he still comes off as defensive but the rest keep sniping at him. He picked up Bradleys endorsement recently. Lieberman was most often wrong being pro-war, anti-gay marriage... he'd be in the Republican right wing why he remains a Dem?.. Carol Mosely-Braun sounded less strident than usual and slipped a few personal things in that humanized her a bit... but seriously. Clark wimped out knowing that America is sick of Southern accents in the White House. Kerry still leaves no impression other than being mad at Dean. Gephardt sounds irrelevent and dated. Al didn't show either, to bad, this group is pretty boring. Dennis still comes off as a really unelectable nice guy. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

01-07-2004, 05:48 PM	#4
Chewbaccus Freethinker/booter Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 523	Kerry comes off as being anti-Dean, because at this point to come off as anything more could land him in Dean's boat as well. Reveal anything to the field to shoot at, and you can be sure they'll take the shot. As it stands, Dean's been so publicized, even if he wins New Hampshire free and clear, it won't really generate any interest. He's in the poor position of only being able to leave NH doing "as expected" or worse. Iowa will trim the fat, NH will show who's got the strength to be the real contenders, come South Carolina, we'll see who's where. I still firmly believe that if any Dem is going to beat Bush, it's going to be Kerry. He has the war record to counter Bush, the Republicans will be pounding the 9/11 drum all campaign (their politicizing the WTC site this year still turns my stomach - any such politicizing would do so, no matter what party is on the dais) but the IAFF (the firefighter's union) endorses Kerry. Now that's a battle I want to see play out. Less than 2 weeks to Iowa...here we go, kids. __________________ Like the wise man said: Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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01-07-2004, 07:34 PM	#5
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I read something the other day that basically compared Dean to Mondale and Dukakis...WTF? Lieberman won't get anywhere, simply because he is Jewish. We don't even have to go into the Republican in Democrat's clothing spiel. I disagree with you on the Southern issue, Griff. We've had 3 in a row (more or less)...if it were the right guy, people would go with pretty much anyone. Kerry doesn't have the moxie to pull it off, IMO. He comes across too much like...ummm...Dukakis. I think February 3 is going to be more interesting than Super Tuesday: Arizona, Washington, Missouri and South Carolina. The hardy conservatives in SC, the insane liberals in WA, the old people in AZ, a good chunk of black folk in MO and SC...a pretty good representation of the nation in just 4 states.

01-07-2004, 07:49 PM	#7
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Yeah, like you're representative of most Americans...or me...or most of the Cellar for that matter...

01-11-2004, 07:29 PM	#8
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	I'm still leaning Dean, even with the gaffes, even with the inverted RNC strategery. Who would want this job? He aint perfect, but he's better. I admire his moxy. Clark strikes me as the complete puppet. Kerry-ineffective, Lieberman not a leader, and Gephardt- milktoast. Mosley Braun is refreshing, Dennis intends too much goodness, and that would surely be disasterous. Al, well hes got to do better at explaining his 3K hotel room. It will be very interesting to watch the absurd and massive Bush war chest launch into action. Dean or whoever is going to be hunted, raked over the coals, twisted, attacked, repeatedly. Its an ugly game, but I'll be pulling for Dean. If the diverse body of non Bush supporters can get smart and get interested, there is a chance for change. If the dems scatter, and destruct with the delightful help of the Reps...score another for Rove. Unless the spy-out thing catches up. But I suppose the timing can be manipulated.

01-12-2004, 10:04 AM	#10
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Well the strategists point to the Clinton political factions of the Dems. The curiousity of a handsome democratic general, the longshot at Bush, but a no-lose situation really- gaining experience in prep for a Hillary assist run next time. You could also point to the defense contractors for whom he was a lobbyist. Its kinda weird to have a lobbyist candidate, but then again, I guess not. He keeps talking about bringing us out of our dysfunction, using the leadership and management experience he gained in the military. That's a bit freaky to me, but then again I guess it shouldnt be.

01-16-2004, 10:55 PM	#11
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Moseley Braun is out, gives support to Dean, people ask, "Who is Carol Moseley Braun?" Why is Terry McAuliffe still the head of the DNC? The Dems have plenty of ammo, and they're just standing there, scared as shit to shoot. Of course, we're talking about Dems here... And Zell Miller is going to campaign for Bush. I respect Miller for his recent blunt criticism of the Dems, and his pro-gun stance. But campaigning for Bush? He's not running for another term in the Senate, so I guess he's got nothing to lose. I know if we have to, we'll make it through more or less, but I can't imagine the Bush administration being in office another 4 years...Goddamn, that's scary.

01-17-2004, 08:37 AM	#12
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Scary? What's your worst fear?

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