Nobody Can Take a Joke Anymore

[xoxoxoBruce]

The Atlantic Magazine has an article titled, "The Coddling of the American Mind". I think although they are specifically talking about colleges, it's a much more widespread problem.

Something strange is happening at America’s colleges and universities. A movement is arising, undirected and driven largely by students, to scrub campuses clean of words, ideas, and subjects that might cause discomfort or give offense.

Last December, Jeannie Suk wrote in an online article for The New Yorker about law students asking her fellow professors at Harvard not to teach rape law—or, in one case, even use the word violate (as in “that violates the law”) lest it cause students distress.

In February, Laura Kipnis, a professor at Northwestern University, wrote an essay in The Chronicle of Higher Education describing a new campus politics of sexual paranoia—and was then subjected to a long investigation after students who were offended by the article and by a tweet she’d sent filed Title IX complaints against her.

In June, a professor protecting himself with a pseudonym wrote an essay for Vox describing how gingerly he now has to teach. “I’m a Liberal Professor, and My Liberal Students Terrify Me,” the headline said.

A number of popular comedians, including Chris Rock, have stopped performing on college campuses (see Caitlin Flanagan’s article in this month’s issue). Jerry Seinfeld and Bill Maher have publicly condemned the oversensitivity of college students, saying too many of them can’t take a joke.

Yes, it's a much broader problem than just campuses.

The press has typically described these developments as a resurgence of political correctness. That’s partly right, although there are important differences between what’s happening now and what happened in the 1980s and ’90s. That movement sought to restrict speech (specifically hate speech aimed at marginalized groups), but it also challenged the literary, philosophical, and historical canon, seeking to widen it by including more-diverse perspectives.

The current movement is largely about emotional well-being. More than the last, it presumes an extraordinary fragility of the collegiate psyche, and therefore elevates the goal of protecting students from psychological harm. The ultimate aim, it seems, is to turn campuses into “safe spaces” where young adults are shielded from words and ideas that make some uncomfortable.

And more than the last, this movement seeks to punish anyone who interferes with that aim, even accidentally. You might call this impulse vindictive protectiveness. It is creating a culture in which everyone must think twice before speaking up, lest they face charges of insensitivity, aggression, or worse.

[opinion] It's an article well worth reading. [/opinion] But you don't have to if you think it might offend you, cupcake.

[Griff]

Lil Griff saw Jay Pharoh at her very liberal school last year. He was commenting on how white the campus was when a girl jumped in with, "I'm Latina!" to which he replied, "Nobody fucking cares."

Comedians are an important breath of fresh air on these campuses. What I like about Lil Griff's is that people do get their hearing, they talk shit to death, and they try for respect. Dumb ideas may get too much love but there is always someone willing to call them out. It is a small enough campus that College Republican will see Rainbow Flagian on campus every day so it's tempered. It is as liberal as her high school was conservative so it's good for her perspective. She knows when to laugh when people bullshit themselves.

In an odd twist she saw some high school friends who moved down South this summer. One family were exactly the same progressive Catholics they were while the other has let their racist bullshit loose. It is interesting that even a conservative Catholic High School tamped down the overt racism back then. Maybe its more a NY versus NC thing...

[Lamplighter]

I did read the article, but I'm still having trouble with the OP title here.

"Nobody can take a joke" - "I was joking" - "It's a joke, asshole"

All too often these are what you hear after someone gets called out on making a racial slur.
Ironically, such are a reverse-PC way a bigot uses to get a social pass on their derogatory remarks.

OTOH the article makes it seem all too silly.
But my college experience was one of the best periods of my life,
because, in large part, it was a time filled with dormitory-arguments
over all kinds of issues: religious - social - political - military - sex ...

I actually glad to see that such back-and-forth vogues are still happening on the campuses.

.

[Griff]

I would guess that as always the best conversations are within dorms not on the public soapbox.

[Gravdigr]

Waaaaay TL;DR...Maybe later.

Joke them if they can't take a fuckin'. Or something.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I did read the article, but I'm still having trouble with the OP title here.

"Nobody can take a joke" - "I was joking" - "It's a joke, asshole"

Clarification: The article title is, "The Coddling of the American Mind".
The OP (my) title is, "Nobody Can Take a Joke Anymore".
The text I highlighted in the quote are your words, not the article's author or mine.

All too often these are what you hear after someone gets called out on making a racial slur.
Ironically, such are a reverse-PC way a bigot uses to get a social pass on their derogatory remarks.

Define racial slur. The point is, too many people are way too sensitive. I think, "Hey nigger", is a racial slur, but, "you're the only black guy in class", is not. However as the article points out, some people would think both are.

OTOH the article makes it seem all too silly.
But my college experience was one of the best periods of my life,
because, in large part, it was a time filled with dormitory-arguments
over all kinds of issues: religious - social - political - military - sex ...

That was how long ago? I feel the same about mine, but that's ancient history, campuses have changed. It's not just anecdotal, either. Laws and campus rules, plus having official systems in place for reporting serious complaints, which allows whining about petty bullshit.

I actually glad to see that such back-and-forth vogues are still happening on the campuses.

Yes, it should be, but it seems there is less of it for fear of exposure to ideas that might offend our Little Precious.
Damn few kids come from griftopia where they've been exposed to the possibility ideas and positions not held by the parents, may be valid.

[Griff]

To be fair other people have smader parents.

[xoxoxoBruce]

You mean one's who spell better?

[elSicomoro]

I'm reading a book right now called "So You've Been Publicly Shamed"...this is part of what plays into public shaming in social media, I think. "You have offended me and so I'm going to make an example out of you." And when you get a bunch of like-minded folks...chaos.

[DanaC]

The Jon Ronson book?

I love him. He's awesome.

All too often these are what you hear after someone gets called out on making a racial slur.

This, unfortunately, is very true. 'It's just banter - grow a sense of humour' is the ultimate get out card for everything. Deeply misogynistic, homophobic, or racist slurs are expected to get a free pass as long as it's humour. That's fine - as long as nobody is getting bullied. Unfortunately bullying is pretty rife in many schools, colleges and workplaces and the way those bullies often work is through 'jokes' and 'banter'. When the focus of that negative attention objects they can simply be dismissed as humourless.

There are times and places for jokes and there are particular audiences and levels of permission that make a difference as to when a joke is harmless and when not. I'd be a lot more relaxed about rape and/or domestic violence jokes, for example, if rape and domestic violence were not massive issues in our society. It also matters who or what the joke is aimed at. What's the power differential?

When I was a kid, jokes about 'pakis' and 'coons' were common currency, on tv and in the playground. That was not harmless. It was the product of a culture of racism and the asian and black kids had to listen to that shit day in and day out and then get called out for not having a sense of humour about it, if they didn't laugh along to jokes about how unwanted and disposable their skin colour made them.

It is a shame that some people aren't able to make the jokes they want to make for fear of upsetting people. But it was also a shame that many people felt quite comfortable making those jokes.

Has it swung too far in some ways? Yeah, maybe it has. But I sure as hell wouldn't want to return to the days when jokes like that were acceptable in the mainstream. And I really wish the 'banter' culture in colleges and universities would die a quiet fucking death - because it is in the way and is not harmless.

[DanaC]

One of the biggest issues in 'banter culture' is the idea of rape jokes. What's the harm? Here it is beautifully articulated:

Following is a primer for men who are interested in learning more about the practical effects of rape humor. This post in particular is addressed to men, not because women don’t rape and women don’t make/laugh at rape jokes and not because men can’t be raped, but because, by nature of the existing gender disparity, men are in a unique position to be taken seriously when they raise objections to casual language and humor regarding rape. Men are also in a unique position to prove to rapists and douchebags that not all men rape or take rape lightly by being able to embody living proof of that fact.

To all those men who don’t think the rape jokes are a problem:

I get it—you’re a decent guy. I can even believe it. You’ve never raped anybody. You would NEVER rape anybody. You’re upset that all these feminists are trying to accuse you of doing something, or connect you to doing something, that, as far as you’re concerned, you’ve never done and would never condone.

And they’ve told you about triggers, and PTSD, and how one in six women is a survivor, and you get it. You do. But you can’t let every time someone gets all upset get in the way of you having a good time, right? Especially when it doesn’t mean anything. Rape jokes have never made YOU go out and rape someone. They never would; they never could. You just don’t see how it matters.

I’m going to tell you how it does matter. And I tell you this because I genuinely believe you mean it when you say you don’t want to hurt anybody, and that it’s important to you to do your best to be a decent and good person, and that you don’t see the harm. And I genuinely believe you when you say you would never associate with a rapist and you think rape really is a very bad thing.

Here is why I refuse to take rape jokes sitting down…

Because 6% of college-aged men, slightly over 1 in 20, will admit to raping someone in anonymous surveys, as long as the word “rape” isn’t used in the description of the act—and that’s the conservative estimate. Other sources double that number (pdf).

A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That’s not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?

Rapists do.

They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.

Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men rape, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like rape jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of rape.

If one in twenty guys (or more) is a real and true rapist, and you have any amount of social activity with other guys like yourself, then it is almost a statistical certainty that one time hanging out with friends and their friends, playing Halo with a bunch of guys online, in a WoW guild, in a pick-up game of basketball, at a bar, or elsewhere, you were talking to a rapist. Not your fault. You can’t tell a rapist apart any better than anyone else can. It’s not like they announce themselves.

But, here’s the thing. It’s very likely that in some of these interactions with these guys, at some point or another, someone told a rape joke. You, decent guy that you are, understood that they didn’t mean it, and it was just a joke. And so you laughed.

Or maybe you didn’t laugh. Maybe it just wasn’t a very funny joke. So maybe you just didn’t say anything at all.

And, decent guy who would never condone rape, who would step in and stop rape if he saw it, who understands that rape is awful and wrong and bad, when you laughed? When you were silent?

That rapist who was in the group with you, that rapist thought that you were on his side. That rapist knew that you were a rapist like him. And he felt validated, and he felt he was among his comrades.

You. The rapist’s comrade.

And if that doesn’t make you feel sick to your stomach, if that doesn’t make you want to throw up, if that doesn’t disturb you or bother you or make you feel like maybe you should at least consider not participating in that kind of humor anymore, not abiding it in your presence, not greeting it with silence…

Well, maybe you aren’t as opposed to rapists as you claim.

————————————-

Note: A quick and simple rule for language and behavior if you want to be a decent person: Ask yourself, who is more likely to be made to feel comfortable around me based on whatever I’m about to say/do? Rape survivors? Or rapists? Who is more likely to be made to feel uncomfortable? If you’re doing something that is more likely to make rapists feel comfortable and/or rape survivors feel uncomfortable, then don’t do it!

http://www.liberateyourself.co.uk/su...are-a-problem/

[Undertoad]

But do you know who think all men are rapists?

Rapists do.

Changing humor and communication won't move that peg IMO.

I don't think rapists listen carefully to language and set their behavior and beliefs according to society's expectations. Sociopaths are sociopaths!

Don't change anything because of sociopaths' reactions to it. That's true madness.

[Undertoad]

I have to state my disagreement more firmly and clearly

I think things improve, and then we stop joking, rather than the other way around. For example I am certain that humor about homosexuality has forced people to confront the idea in their head in a different way.

Humor is where the conversation begins. When the scolds say "don't joke about that!" they are forbidding topics of conversation. That's not healthy and discourages change.

In order for humor to work there must be a vein of common beliefs, and if those belief are bogus, here is where they first get examined and corrected. This is where the scolds legitimately come in. If it's not funny because it's false, point that out. If it's funny, but supposed to not be funny because the subject is verboten, it's suddenly even MORE funny.

That's actually how this works! Comics mine our discomfort! The edge of our discomfort creates a point in our head where we recognize a little irony, and we laugh at the new common understanding that we have figured out.

Do you notice, when there's comedy about gays, blacks, jews etc today, it's much different comedy than it was 50 years ago. It's more sophisticated and requires a different level of understanding.

People are different. This is funny! Comedy is how we address differences. This is productive! And that's why, the only criterion that matters is, IS IT FUNNY?

[DanaC]

I agree - I certainly don't think particular subject matter should be banned. But - when the root of humour is based on patently wrong, yet massively accepted steretypes (cartoons in the Weimar Republic about grotesque, animalistic, money-grabbing jews, films and cartoons in the late 19th/early 20th Century American South about animalistic, white-woman craving, libidinous blacks, and 1980s British comedy about the stupidity of Irishmem, or the subservience of Indian men) then it needs to be challenged by those who recognise what those jokes are actually doing.

But that's not about banning - it's about applying social pressure for change. It's a chicken and egg situation - society begins to change, so more people become aware - more people become aware so society changes.

Personally, I don't think any topic should ever be considered in and of itself to be beyond the remit of humour. But there is a really big difference between a joke that makes someone think about race/gender/sexual orientation and a joke that simply weighs in with confirmation of commonly held stereotypes. I have heard comedians make rape jokes that made me laugh and made me think and confront my own preconceptions. I have also heard comedians (and just mates) make rape jokes that made me wonder about their attitude to rape victims. The big differences between them were first off who was the butt of the humour and for what reason, and also whether the person making the joke was punching up or punching down.

There are legitimate complaints to be made about the way Twitter and social media, along with campus organisations, respond to jokes that oculd potentially be considered offensiove by someone, for whatever reason. Very occasionally, the outrage is warranted - on the whole it far surpasses anything like a proportionate response. But there are also legitimate complaints to be made about the way some sub-cultures, and this goes for social media and university campuses, create an unpleasant and emotionally damaging space out of somewhere that should be inclusive and then put the onus on the victims of social bullying to see the humour in what is a thinly veiled and dehumanising assault on what and who they are at their core.

[xoxoxoBruce]

As soon as I hear something like , "all men are rapists", or any other generalizations of that tone, I immediately dismiss the speaker as a twit.