[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

Correct until you got to the part about "like all cars If it had a differential like all cars, then the only wheel that spins is the stuck one. So that other wheels will also turn, that 4 wheel drive differential must interconnect (lock) the wheels. Also called limited slip differentials. And more infighting between front and rear wheels.

Wrong. All cars have differentials. Most of them are "open", which means the power is transmitted to the wheel with the least traction. The "limited slip" differentials transmit the power to the wheel with the most traction. I have them in my 2 wheel drive vehicles. There's no "infighting" between wheels, the wheels take what they are given by the differential, and do the best they can with it. There could only be "infighting" if the power originated at the wheels... duh

When trucks had hubs, that interconnection was rock solid.

Stop right there. You're describing an ancient system, most popular with WW II vintage, military 4x4s, 6x6s and 8x8s. They used a locked front differential that was driven full time, with the front wheels connected/disconnected from the always driven axle, at the hubs. If the traction was good and they locked the front wheels to the axle, both wheels have to turn at the same speed, so trying to steer around a corner where the front wheels have to turn at different speeds, all hell would break loose. The hubs could only be locked if it was slippery, or you were going straight.
This system is extremely inefficient and expensive, because of all the moving parts that require power and are wearing out, even when not used to drive the vehicle. After the war, (the big one, WW II), they used a transfer care for the front wheels that could be shifted into neutral, but retained the locking hubs. Early smaller 4x4 trucks used this system, but as 4x4s became more popular with hunters, farmers, and snow plowers, this system was discarded for more efficient systems with limited slip differentials, thus ending the "infighting" between wheels.

If you drove that vehicle at 30 MPH, you could easily roll the vehicle. So that the today's four wheel drives do not routinely roll over, the differential is not locked as firmly. But all wheels must still be interconnected – causing reduce moving safety. It has a limited slip differential. That means wheels still fight each other. And also increase tire wear.

I've got news for you, every vehicle on the road has all it's tires interconnected, otherwise when you turn the corner, your wheels might not. They might decide to stop at the tire bar for a recap. Seriously, they are all interconnected, the only thing that's different is the way the car decides which tires are better suited to moving the car in various traction conditions.

Why tire wear? Because the wheels on four wheel drive are constantly fighting each other. Increasing tire wear. Reduced traction and control at/above 30 MPH. The compromise. Reduce moving safety so that the vehicle can more easily get started.

You just don't get it, do you.

Safety is secondary on vehicles designed to have less ground clearance than a Humvee and also be less stable. One icy roads, the last vehicle I want to be in is a four wheel drive where all wheels are fighting each other due to limited slip differentials and another interlock between from and rear wheels.

Simple fact, if you are going off road, or through deep snow, you need ground clearance. When the traction is limited, I'm glad my 2 wheel drive vehicles have limited slip differentials, and an added bonus is on dry roads I can leave 2 big strips of burning rubber, which pisses off the tw types to no end.

But those local gossip bimbos tell us to believe differently.

Maybe the "local gossip bimbos" are aware of the many choices I pointed out to Dana, or maybe just trying to scare the people that shouldn't be driving anyway, into staying home.

As you noted, the limited slip differential is why four wheel drive wheels fight each other - causing less control and increased tire wear. That means less control and less safety. That means less braking and tires more easily losing traction during emergency manuevers. Same thing that increases tire wear also means less control when moving on icy roads.

You obviously didn't understand what I said or why. No wait, you probably did, but disregarded it because it doesn't support your campaign to demonize SUVs as the route/root of all evil, and 4 wheel drive as a symbol of SUVs.

Which do we believe? Advertising or reality? As DanaC demonstrates, a four wheel drive is not about needing to go off road. In most every case, it's about ego. And this myth that such vehicles are safer because they are higher, etc.

Uh, Dana's people were not going off road.

A nearby family suffered last week on the way to FL. She caught the left edge of the left lane on I-95 in SC. Because such trucks are so unstable, it flipped when it snapped back onto the road. Only the most unsafe vehicles with less stability flip more often. One of two kids were killed. These trucks are some of the least stable vehicles. Add four wheel drive to make them even less safe in inclement weather.

"Caught the left edge" means she drove off the road, and "snapped back onto the road" means she did exactly the wrong thing. I wonder if the kid was belted in? It's a shame she killed one her kids because she didn't stay on the road, and didn't know how to drive. Fortunately she can absolve herself of any responsibility, by blaming the vehicle. They have yet to invent an idiot proof vehicle, of any sort.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And do they have a UAW equivalent there?

I think they have some sort of workers organization, but they also have the advantage of the European culture of much longer vacations, and government supported health care.