[BigV]

Originally Posted by vsp

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That's why I twigged on the phrase "these people" in the first place, because it was an obvious euphemism for a demonization of a hell of a lot more people than the terrorists themselves, and I can't say that my instincts were wrong about that.
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vsp, your instincts were NOT wrong about that. You (finally) clearly say what fuels the hatred on all sides. It is largely a product lazy weak thinking. Do any of you for a moment think that the criminals responsible for this tragedy specifically targeted any of the victims? Of course not. To the perpetrators, the intended victims were "those people". That was good enough for them. Lazy. And that's practically a compliment compared to the other truthful characterizations of these acts.

This kind of stunted thinking is useful in many ways. It's easy. Conveniently, it is cheap and effective to produce and promote (think FOXNews). It is flexible; Osama bin Laden -> Saudia Arabia -> Afghanistan -> Saddam Hussein -> Iraq...whatever. "If I see brown, it's goin' down."

But useful and effective only applies if you wish to continue the struggle. It does not apply if your goal is to eliminate the conflict. If resolution is your goal, if you are a seeker of peace, then the path of the lazy is closed to you. A harder way lies ahead. This narrow path requires that you open your mind to the point of view of the other side. And I guarantee that those views are held by individuals.

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

... scratch any muslim, underneath you are likely to find...if not a terrorist, someone who believes what the terrorists are doing is just.

The usefulness of labels in this way is very limited, and mrnoodle, you has driven them well past their end. Look here for a minute, 'k?

To bait fish withal. If it will feed nothing else, it will feed my revenge.

He hath disgraced me and hindered me half a million, laughed at my losses, mocked at my gains, scorned my nation, thwarted my bargains, cooled my friends, heated mine enemies—and what’s his reason? I am a Jew.

Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian
is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?

If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge. If a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me I will execute—and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

The Merchant of Venice
--Act III, Scene i, lines 43-61
William Shakespeare

These labels are old, but perfectly interchangable for the events of our own time. Indeed, they do bleed, just as they've shown we do. But when you refuse to acknowledge their very humanity, then you will fail to see a person, seeing only "those people". And the very slipperiness of that concept that drew you to it in the first place DOOMS you to be stuck with it forever. Kill one, bomb one hundred and another thousand anonymously stand up to replace them. You sow the seeds of your own destruction when you fight hate and ignorance with ignorance and hate.