[Jill]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

A hundred times over. I'm still chuckling.

You rock!

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

Dude, he's not dead. He's pining for the fjords.

And Jill rocks.

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Definitely understated

I think it's you guys who rock! You sure made my day!

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

You have won nothing, Jill, and you're not going to. Sure, you're stubborn. Sure, you pursue subadult ideas. Those shall not win the day for you, handily nor otherwise. Fanatics collide with me and they break.

I pursue "subadult" ideas? That's hilarious, considering you're the one who suggested that being a Beauty Queen was somehow relevant to political superiority.

Interesting that you wish to "break" me, as opposed to convince me. Personally, I'd just like for you to learn a few things, and perhaps acknowledge a few truths, even if you don't come around fully to my way of thinking, politically. Why would you want to "break" me? That's not very respectful.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Let's start in on the nature of the Left, shall we?

How about let's not. This thread is about the death of Osama bin Laden. I'd say it's already been hijacked enough, wouldn't you?

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Particularly this last is whence the opposition to the Obama Administration and its agenda springs. Even the temperately-read words of the usual sort of Obama speech, exemplified in the "clinging bitterly to their guns and their religion" speech, show a profound disdain for people who just plain don't merit disdain. It mischaracterizes them as bitter, then abuses the practitioners of the vaccination of the body politic against genocide -- or do the JPFO have it all wrong?

On the other hand, I simply cannot allow a misquote to go without correction. It is you who is doing the mischaracterizing here. Then-candidate Obama did not say that anyone was clinging bitterly to their guns and their religion, and certainly not within a speech. And it certainly wasn't in an attempt to marginalize anyone.

Barack Obama was discussing the reason that so many people in "small town America" are bitter -- and they are, let's be honest.

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not."

Do you deny this truth? Is this not an accurate depiction of many small towns throughout the Midwest, where jobs have dried up and nothing more than lip service has been paid to those who have been suffering through the demise of their livelihoods?

And that, friend Guerrilla, is why Barack Obama then said, "And it's not surprising then they get bitter."

It's not surprising, is it? It doesn't surprise me that people who've been "left behind" by technology and job outsourcing and politicians entering into treaties and working trade deals that have contributed to their towns crumbling around them, would be bitter. I'd be bitter! Wouldn't you?

And what do people who have become bitter about how the government has in many ways orchestrated their devolution towards poverty do, when they don't have the political clout to effect change in the big ways that would rebuild their communities?

"They cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...enophobia.html

That isn't even remotely how you depicted his statement, is it?

I don't mind debating you on facts. You're certainly well within your rights to want to counter the assessment Barack Obama made, based on what he actually said. But it's impossible to have a reasonable debate with someone when they aren't debating realities, but made-up stuff.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Being rather right of center myself allows and causes me to be whole -- unbroken. I am not here to lead you astray, Jill. I am here to do the very opposite. Indeed, such is my character that I could no other, all right? You don't have to like it right off, you don't have to believe me right off. But you will come to a somewhat uncomfortable awareness that I do rather well, because of what I hew to; because I have a clear understanding of who and what the monsters are. This is a faculty the Left -- well, it is kindest to say that they lack it.

I have no doubt that you do very well. I'm quite certain that you attribute that to how you hew politically. I contend, however, that you are completely unaware of who and what the monsters really are, or you would be fighting to save America from them instead of embracing them while watching your beloved country crumble around your ears.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

This will, I think, be a great deal of fun.

For one of us, perhaps. I'm not sure it's who you think it is, though.

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

ay, there's the rub...

Indeed. As exposed above. If one doesn't view the political landscape through the lens of reality, the world becomes distorted and no problems can ever be resolved, nor can agreement ever be reached.

Originally Posted by SamIam

Y'all are so cute trying to sustain a rational dialog with UG!

I may tire of it at some point, but for now, I'm willing to engage him, at a minimum to show him that he has formulated opinions based on faulty information.

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

Just testing the findings of a recent study in the UK that suggests people with right wing views have a larger area of the brain associated with fear.

Not just that, but "people with self-reported liberal views tended to have a larger anterior cingulate cortex -- a brain area involved in processing conflicting information."

In the meantime, Osama bin Laden is still DEAD! And it was Barack Obama who orchestrated it.