[slang]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Of course! He'd be so happy to know I have a friend who read it. He thinks about as much of my politics as you do. Which is funny, because you're both assuming I hold a position I don't

Ok, I was confused about your position by your apparent support of continuing the witch hunt even after a long and thorough process. By a guy that would get a Nobel prize for digging up solid evidence of anything but that hasn’t . Maybe tomorrow.

Plus you seem to support big government. I’m not sure if I ever met a right leaning person that wanted more government.
But I’ll take your word.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

That's what I was saying. You were the one who said, "Before that disconnect [going off the Gold Standard] one wouldn't need gold since a paper dollar was effectively gold.

You are correct. I have mis-written.

Until ’71 foreign held dollars were redeemable. But not as an American citizen, only as an institutional holder, IIRC.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

" I'm saying the Gold Standard had nothing to do with it. Prior to 1932, people had gold, and they had plenty of guns, too. And the guns didn't do a thing to stop or reverse the government's confiscation policy. They didn't just say "we're going to take it," they actually successfully took it, for over 40 years.

This is directly out of the book but it’s kindle here so the page numbers are different than the paperback so I can’t site them.

Part II.
Gold as Contraband II.
Public Compliance

“…It can be surmised that the total amount of gold withheld in violation of the law was at least as great as the amount voluntarily surrendered to the government, thus setting the level of compliance between April 1933 and January 1934 at no more than 50%. Whether this represents a governmental success or failure is left for the reader to decide.“

Your position stated above is that the gov’t actually did it, not just spoke of doing it. Despite the public having guns.

Aside from those who smuggled gold to Canada and those that chose to hide their gold, less than 50% of the public complied to Executive Order 6102, as seen in the book “Confiscation – Gold As Contraband 1933-1975 by Mr. F”

But what about compliance AFTER January 1934?

“…There are however two additional factors to consider when estimating compliance rates. First the face value of all the gold coins turned into the treasury between 1934 and 1960 was less than $12 million, or roughly 4% of the total outstanding as of January 1934.

Nearly all of this was reclaimed by discovery and seizure rather than voluntary surrender, so it’s clear that the early rates of noncompliance held steady even after the passage of the Gold Reserve Act.

Second, the Federal Reserve figures only account for the United States legal tender gold coins. There is no way to estimate compliance regarding gold contraband generally classified as bullion, which includes bars, medallions, nuggets, and most importantly, foreign coins.

The United States was a nation of immigrants, and what wealth they had was often brought over in various forms of gold and precious stones. Given this, the level of compliance was almost certainly much lower than 50%. As with other black markets, the market for owning, trading, and smuggling contraband gold was difficult – if not impossible – for the federal government to control.“

Yah-but…what about after 1960?

Criminal Prosecutions

At the same time that the Treasury Department was expanding the list of permissible “gold coins of recognized special value, “ the Department of Justice was continuing to pursue criminal prosecution for the mere possession of small amounts of gold bullion.

This included cases involving gold coins not exempted as collector’s items, such as the Mexican 50 peso restrikes dated 1947. Chilean 100 pesos, and Peruvian 100 soles. One of these cases, heard in the District Court for Southern California in 1962, attracted a level of notoriety that was unwanted by the government, but welcomed by gold advocates.

The defendants in the United States v. James Briddle and Harold Mitchell were accused of holding approximately $700 worth of gold bullion, in violation of President Roosevelt’s Executive Order 6260 of August 28, 1933.

After reviewing the historical and legal basis for Roosevelt’s order, district judge William C. Mathes considered the nature of the national emergency as it existed in 1933, and whether it continued to exist nearly 30 years later. As he wrote in his Memorandum of Decision dated December 27, 1962:

Certainly a “national emergency” of an economic nature existed in 1933 at the time of Executive Order 6260 was promulgated. The withdrawl and hoarding of gold threatened the nation’s entire economy.

It was against this panic that the order was directed. For this reason, the Congress obviously felt that stiff criminal penalties … were justified by the crisis confronting the nation.

…It is a simple matter, of course, to date the commencement of a “national emergency” by it’s declaration. But unless the ending be marked by proclamation also, it is sometimes difficult indeed to determine. Yet always at some point the “national emergency” does end, and the orders which find their authority in the existence of the emergency lost their validity.

Judge Mathes went on to note that this line of reasoning was applied in a 1954 case ( Bauer v. United States), but that the Court of Appeals refused to hear the case due to concerns over jurisdiction.

Judge Mathes declared that his court was the proper jurisdiction, and that indeed a national emergency no longer existed. The defendants’ motion to dismiss the indictment was granted, and the gold involved was returned to it’s owners.”

It seems like this source material contradicts your assertion that they “took it for 40 years.” Gold coins were legalized and hidden holders effectively pardoned in 1954. For non compliance to a law that clearly violated personal property protections, even if the USSC had not heard the case.

Bullion was still basically useless by policy until later, in 1975, but for the most part if you hid your gold bullion, eventually you could redeem it for financial gain, by the public law 93-373.

That officially legalized selling, purchasing and dealing with gold in all forms in the US and abroad. By then bullion was legal and there was a market for it
.
Only ONE person was successfully prosecuted by the confiscation. If you were to have hidden or exported your gold you would most surely not be prosecuted OR have it illegally stolen.

So of the US population of approximately 125,578,563 ( in 1933 ) divided by 2 (approx 50%) equals 62,789,281.5 did not comply in 1933.

It doesn’t appear as if the Man was terribly effective at enforcing the original confiscation. Or the hidden or exported gold thereafter.