[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You throw "equality" around like it's the be all, end all, to every social ill. There has never been equality in anything, and I don't think it's achievable or in most cases desirable. What we should be striving for is trying to eliminate stumbling blocks for people to advance their personal achievement, but if the kid has an IQ of 75 he's not going to Harvard, no matter what tools we give him.

I do not want equality in everything and never implied it, I just want to get rid of the stumbling blocks as well. I do not want the guy with the 75 IQ to go to Harvard, I want the everyone with a potential 175 IQ to have an equal chance to show that they can go to Harvard.

Give every kid a solid basic education in the 3-Rs, then in High School provide different paths to choose from that will prepare them to make their way in the world. There is no equality and no system that's not hierarchical. If you chose to live in a society, rather than Ted Kazinski's cabin, then you have to deal with it, like everyone else. But, unlike the commie states, you still have the free choice of the cabin.

I agree with this. I never wanted equality in every aspect if there was a misunderstanding there.

Biologically, there is even less equality than politically.

Thats what I was saying the whole time...

No, the guy that shot the dear shared it with the others, but he still got the best cut. That's the way it's always been, commensurate reward for value. It doesn't matter that 12 other hunters worked just as hard, if they didn't produce results.

He got the best cut, but the other people didn't go hungry either.

Not unless the people want it, and I don't hear much clamor except from a few idealists.

Thats why I don't think a leftist government is possible right now and would never fight for one either.

Your right, a manager that takes on the responsibility and accepts the same compensation as the workers, has no class.

No class? That shows that he would have a lot of class, the word you are looking for is fool.

No, not society's value of skill and effort. Society doesn't determine jack shit. It's the boss, the owner, of the business that determines the value of skill and effort, and determines the compensation, not society.

Ok, thats still not a direct representation of skill and effort then. A manager still does not work 50 times harder or is 50 times more skilled even if he or she thinks so.

What the fuck are you talking about? You said whites and blacks "were told to be equal". I presumed you were talking about the civil rights movement and federal court rulings/legislation. They were not told to be equal, they were told not to fuck with each other.

So giving blacks the right to vote is telling them "not to fuck with each other"?

You're dreaming. "Socially accepted" is a bullshit term that means nothing, except politically correct. It's politically correct to say that whites and blacks should have the same rights, but that doesn't mean everyone feels that way... ask any skinhead. It doesn't even guarantee a majority feel that way, it just means they'll agree in polite (PC) conversation.... and polls. The truth is in their actions.

Ok, your right on that but the point I am trying to get at is that racism has gone down since every generation is being raised in a society that is less and less racist.

It's contrary to human nature, there was always chiefs and shamans in every society.

I am not denying that, I am talking about how much power the chiefs and shamans should have over the population. And just because there is a leader doesn't mean there is a class difference.