[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by spudcon

Okay, I'll chime in here. Conservatives conserve the values written in the Constitution.

Ok, but is that good? The Constitution allowed slavery and held women in such low esteem that they were forbidden to vote. A blanket statement to conserve the values written in the constitution may not be the best philosophy to have.

Originally Posted by spudcon

Conservatives don't try to change the Constitution by asking some guy in a black robe to change it by fiat.

Of course conservatives don't try to change the Constitution - you don't want it changed. But when laws are made that conservatives don't like, or a presidential election is in question, they use the court system like everyone else does.

Originally Posted by spudcon

Conservatives don't believe in anarchy,

They want limited regulation. Conservatives are often heard saying "keep government out of my life". Where does lawful society end and anarchy start?

Originally Posted by spudcon

legalized murder and

Capital punishment?

Originally Posted by spudcon

theft, or

Nobody does.

Originally Posted by spudcon

distribution of wealth.

Distribution of wealth. Distribution of wealth. Is that when taxes are collected from everyone who can afford to pay taxes and used to pay for our miltary, police, teachers, etc.? Sure, it also goes to help those who cannot help themselves - the old, infirm, young - but a society is measured by how well they take care of the weakest among them. And yes, some of those who get help aren't the ones who should be getting it, but do you allow some in need to fall through the cracks because of a few bad apples? FWIW, I'm a liberal who believes in workfare. I view taxes as an investment. I don't mind paying taxes if I get a return on my investment, even if it's streets that are swept clean.

Originally Posted by spudcon

Conservatives believe in private property rights, and the freedom to enjoy your own possessions without interference from some bureaucrat who has never held down a real job, or owned his own business.

If you're objecting to emminent domain, it was a supreme court with a conservative majority who upheld that ruling.

Originally Posted by spudcon

Conservatives believe this country was founded on Judeo-Christion principals,

I disagree. The founding fathers were deists, not theists

Thomas Jefferson
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

Jefferson again
"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and imposters led by Paul, the first great corruptor of the teachings of Jesus."

More Jefferson
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
enslaving mankind and adulturated by artificial constructions into a
contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy in fact,constitute the real Anti-Christ."

Jefferson's word for the Bible? "Dunghill."

John Adams
"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole cartloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?"

Also Adams
"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
absurdity."

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states
"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

Here's Thomas Paine
"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)."

"Among the most detesable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers, and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible)."

"It is the duty of every true Diest to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible."

"Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance."

And; "The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretend imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty."

Finally let's hear from James Madison
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyrrany. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the
exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote "Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

Originally Posted by spudcon

and that the constitution does not allow a state religion, but it does allow freedom of religion, not from religion.

Do you think the constitution defends a preference for one religion over another, or defends one religion in it's goal to dominate American society?