Quote:
Originally posted by Griff
The problem is everyone else considered this before we went into Iraq.
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Nobody considered this. We went into war gung ho - many with a "big dic" mentality about it. Logical justification was not required. We entered war based on facts that were fiction. Outright lies. There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq. There were no WMDs. There was no threat to the security of the US. Even the Vulcans are now saying (their story has changed as they blame Colin Powel) that we did this to fundamentally change the Middle East - not to respond to preceived threats. So yes, nobody considered the consequences of going to war WITHOUT a smoking gun. Suddenly we have exactly the failures that occur when war is justified without a smoking gun - when war is justified by myths, outright lies, and a "big dic" emotion. The emotion that so promoted a Pearl Harbor attack on Iraq was in the Cellar only 1.5+ years ago.
"In war, people do some really fucked up shit" ... when the war is promoted by outright lies such as the mythical aluminum tubes and WMDs, and Al Qaeda in Iraq. All lies justified only because the poltical agenda is important and because lies are justified by the agenda.
But even worse, those convinced that alunimum tubes were for WMDs (when even advanced science labs disagreed) now say that torture and abuse are going to happen; therefore justified.
UT - again first follow the facts. You listened to the Rumsfeld interview. Don't ignore what you don't like to hear. Major General Miller, whose job was to torture and abuse prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, was sent to *coordinate* the investigations in Iraq. What happened in Abu Ghraib is directly traceable to Guantanamo Bay. Therein lies a direct connecction - Major General Miller.
Sexual abuse and outright torture will happen in war. Therefore it is acceptable for Americans to do it? Even worse, when exposed, we only blame the enlisted men - an unsized company? They were not trained for prison duty. They did not even have all 180 men because every time one was lost, no replacements would be sent (directly traceable to Rumsfeld's idea that we have enough troops). The unit assigned to Abu Ghraid would have trouble controlling 4000 prisoners. They had 7000 prisoners AND they were attacked every night by RPGs and mortars. These enlisted men, only doing what they were ordered from the highest levels and doing what UT calls acceptable because it will happen, are now subject to court-martial? 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquistion when war is even justified by lies? Exactly why the smoking gun must exist before war can occur.
What do you think Guantanamo Bay is all about? Is that justification to now blame Michael Moore - to divert away from the subject only because the subject demonstrated evil from god's choosen president? Torture and abuse justified only because no rule of law exists there. Why are "investigations" in Iraq being coordinated with those in Guantanamo Bay? 80% of the prisoners in Cuba are innocent - and the administration cannot find proof for all their lies? So let go torture some in Iraq for the answers?
The George Jr administration lies like no other - except the Nixon administration. So instead one would blame Michael Moore? Where did most of the principles (top management) in this George Jr administration get their start in government? In the same Nixon administration. A few massacres, torture, and abuse are going to happen in war. Therefore it is justiified. Instead we blame Michael Moore? Instead nobody should expect the Spanish Inquisition? Same reasoning also justified this Pearl Harbor attack on Iraq. Exactly what happens when no smoking gun exists to justify war. Then blame the enlisted men.