[tw]

Originally posted by richlevy
I'm not quite ready to build a conspiracy theory around this. Basically we under-supported the prison in order to supply manpower to a badly overstretched occupation force. Conspiracy theories imply competence. This was just another cluster fuck caused by bad planning and lack of support, not to mention politicizing the war in not allowing the generals fighting it to ask for the forces they really need and getting rid of the ones who actually do give reasonable estimates.

I don't understand where insufficient staffing has anything to do with the abuse. Do people who are overworked then physically and sexually abuse others? Where is the justification? Understaffing and insufficient training do not justify this kind and widespread abuse.

When a large organization enters a project with a clear objective, then the rules work. We entered the Kuwait liberation with clear and specific objectives. In fact Powell had to fight tooth and nail to get those objectives defined. He fought so hard for those specific objectives that many (ie Cheney) openly wondered if they had the right General for the job. But as a result, the liberation occurred according to principles that America deems essential. The rules actually meant something because top management was responsible enough to even make specific objectives.

This war is clearly had no strategic objectives, no exit strategy, no political solutions to take over when the military job was done, top management that even takes troops off of planes to go home and says, "you are staying another three months". When management is that corrupt (and yes that kind of incompetance by management is called corruption), then the little people make on their own rules (ie Catch 22).

Where is a conspiracy to be assumed? There is no conspiracy. These things will happen when top mangement does as this administration has done. These are lessons from Vietnam - another war lead by corrupt top management.

Is it not obvious that the rules don't matter. Guantanamo Bay (Camp Delta) said torture and abuse of 'infidel' muslims is acceptable and preferred. That attitude - that message from highest levels - the White House - said the written rules will not be enforced. No conspiracy. Just exactly what happens when troops never even trust the date given for going home.

No specific agenda. Lies even about reasons for war from the highest levels. Lies about sufficient numbers of troops. Lies about the people wanting to be liberated. Lies - for some units multiple times - about when the troops would be going home. Even a top general who outrightly disparages Muslims in public - and is not even reprimanded (investigation is said to still be ongoing). Torture and abuse are therefore acceptable behavoir. That is the message. Just as in VietNam, when top management lies, does not even provide honest objectives. Lies and deciet within the ranks are then common; should be expected. The concept is even taught in a 500 BC book called "Art of War". Principles are that well understood - except apparently by this administration.

In VietNam, we were liberating yellow skined, slant eyed boys. It turns out they did not want to be liberated. And so we ended up with My Lai massacre and "we had to burn the village to save it" mentality. Exact same thing in Iraq. Directly traceable to the attitude and knowledge provided by this George Jr administration.

A soldier marries an Iraqi against orders. He is simply reprimanded. Soldiers sexually and physically absue prisoners. They too are only reprimanded. Investigation still ongoing for how long and nobody - not even Congress - is informed? What does that say? Minor infractions include outright torture and sexual abuse. How much clearer could top management be?

Then it gets even worse. The president cannot even apologize for this abuse. Abuse was ongoing and known for most of the last six months in that one prison alone. It is still ongoing in Guantanamo Bay. It may have been routine in many other locations (only during the tenure of George Jr). People are picked up and held for 3 months. No outside contact. Relatives are not even told where they are. The Red Cross is not even permitted to visit! After three months, if they are not guilty of anything, they are kicked out with $10. This is justice? This says to Iraqis that Americans are better than Saddam? This is how America will win the hearts and minds of people? Teach them the values of democracy?

We did not even do that to prisoners in WWII. Red Cross informed the families of where the man was being held. Why is it justified now to not even tell his family where he is? Because they are only muslims? That was the message even from Guantanamo Bay.

If the prisons were so understaffed, then why was the Red Cross not even permitted to help?

Tell the truth? Even the murder, in 15 minutes, of an Iraq Major General was covered up. They even faked the attempt to rescue him from a heart attack long after he was murdered. Why do we only find out about this now, almost 1 year later? Why does 60 Minutes II report to the president what even his top cabinent officers knew and could not report? Or is George Jr only lying again? Hoping just like Nixon that the truth will remain buried? Blame the misguided assistants.

Tell the truth? A new sign is now posted in Abu Ghraib that says no pictures? Why? Torture would still be ongoing if not for those photos. Reminds me of when the press would demonstrate repeatedly how airports had no real security. What was the solution? Congress passes a law making it a crime to test airport security. That mentality also saved the WTC. The sign should read, "all who enter are required to take pictures." Why do we fear more truths coming out?

Again, top management is so much the problem that George Jr will not even apologize for the abuse. His arrogence is only dipping toxins all over the middle east.

But some have noted something good. America - or more specific, the name George Bush - is so toxic in the Arab world that this only and again confirms the hate. It does not increase the hate. However it has caused a light to be turned on. Suddenly, Arabs are now seeing how dirty the entire room is. Discussions in free press organizations (ie Al Jazzera) are also expanding the anger to how prisons are also run in Syria and Saudia Arabia. So maybe some good will come.

Still that and a shortage of troops does not justify any of the abuse. There is no conspiracy. That abuse occurred because it was condoned and encouraged at the highest levels of government. They defined the objectives. They demonstrated that the wrong actions will not result in anything more than a reprimand. This Abu Ghraib prison abuse is exactly the attitude encouraged from the White House. No conspiracy. They simple defined an attitude and objective. The abuse was an inevitable consequence - for the same reasons even massacres were inevitable in Vietnam. This is what happens when top management does not do its job - does not even define a valid strategic objective - lies about the war's purpose - and all but condones the resulting abuse. Hell. The president is so arrogent that he cannot even apologize for something that America should be apologizing for.... big time.