[Adak]

Originally Posted by BigV

what makes labor practices unfair?
what makes a patent? a trademark? a copyright?

you didn't answer the question about the waste discharge freedom vs the drink clean water freedom.

Patents, trademarks, and copyrights, are a full book in themselves. Lots of in's and out's to them. I don't see how that relates to political philosophy directly, however.

I completely missed your post about waste discharge vs clean water freedoms. I'm not sure that topic relates to this thread, directly. Maybe start a new thread for it?

Once again, you're really. really really hung up on labels about what happened in Libya. It's ok, you focus on what you think is important. "act of terror" versus "terrorism" seems terribly important to you. It means something to you. Fine. But you're wildly inconsistent in your choices of what's "important" and what's not, what's valid and what's not. Your standards for different speakers saying similar things are wildly different. this .. .. inconsistency might be easier for you to bear, but it disqualifies you as a respectable source of information. your confirmation bias is so huge it covers your whole horizon, making it indistinguishable from anything else.

More info is still coming in about Libya - as Hillary Clinton said it would in her statement last week.

Today, the Hillary Clinton staff have leaked that Hillary received the request for more security in Libya, and based on the earlier attacks in June (iirc), and the unstable armed militias abounding in the country, approved the request for more security, and sent it up to the President.

Obama rejected it. (it appears, this is not confirmed yet).

As the attack began, the CIA guys, who were there to collect what they could of dangerous weapons from the militias (a buy back campaign for $$$, I believe), were told TO STAND DOWN, and not support Ambassador Stevens. The CIA guys were about a 1/2 mile away from the consulate, in a "safe house".

The two CIA agents who died, disobeyed their orders to stand down, and went running over to help the Ambassador. As ex-Navy Seals, they know the difference between a little shooting into the air, and a concerted attack likely to overwhelm the consulate. They were doing a great job of holding off the attackers, but were finally killed by a mortar strike.

The attack lasted over 5 hours - and SOMEBODY turned down the urgent request by Ambassador Stevens and the Consulate staff, for help. Gen. David Patreus (Head of the CIA), has stated that NO ONE in the CIA, turned down that request, and any report that they did, is simply "inaccurate".

The Dept. of Defense is saying that NO ONE in their dept. turned down the request for help, by the consulate. The State Dept. has no say about a request for military help, from a consulate. Those go to the Defense dept, and up to the President.

So, to sum it up - Obama denied the request for help from the consulate, even though help could easily have been there in time (Aviona, Italy air base is close by). http://www.aviano.af.mil/

and ready "Anytime, Anywhere". These are the guys who gave us air support in Libya, when it was freed from Ghaddafi, so they KNOW the place, very well.

The first city they protected in Libya? Benghazi!

And with the real time feed coming in from the recon drone, Obama's staff and himself, could watch the last few hours of the attack, and the Ambassador's body being dragged through the streets after the attack - finally ending up at the hospital, dead of course.

The Benghazi attack story is not over, and many are calling for Obama being removed from office, if he wins the election, because of his apparent dereliction of duty. Not all the facts are known yet, however.