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OnyxCougar · 02-21-2004, 09:11 AM

[Christian Hat]
If God MADE you believe in him, that, in and of itself, completely invalidates free will. That is the one major thing I disagree with. Because if he MADE you believe in him, you have no choice, you HAVE to believe in him.

Now, I do understand your point that if you believe in him, you still have the option to worship him, as belief does not equal worship. But...If you believe in him, and, in the believing, believe the tenets of the bible (His document that has yet to be disproven)***, then wouldn't you, therefore, worship unless you were truly stupid?

So, since you would worship him if he were to reveal his existance to you, that, in effect, does remove your free will.

Elspode is of the opinion that Christians use the concepts of "redemption" and "forgiveness" to excuse hypocrisy and plain out "doing wrong".

Some Christians do, but I don't think very much of them. IMO, that is just a bullshit hypocritical excuse, used by people who want to get away with stupid shit that they knew was wrong in the first place, and did anyway.

I think that Good Christians(tm) use the most integral portion of the equation of forgiveness, and that is "repentance". Not the Catholic Version, but the Jesus version. I mean, you gotta be really sorry and WORK HARD on changing your habits and thoughts that are wrong (in the Christian sense), not just give lip service and say the cachisms over and over.

I think it was in Peter it says you have to have REASONS for your faith, not just follow on blind faith.***
[/Christian Hat]

***Instead of going into this here, please see www.answersingenesis.org, I'm not going to defend the bible here, they do it far better than I ever could.

02-21-2004, 09:11 AM	#59
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	[Christian Hat] If God MADE you believe in him, that, in and of itself, completely invalidates free will. That is the one major thing I disagree with. Because if he MADE you believe in him, you have no choice, you HAVE to believe in him. Now, I do understand your point that if you believe in him, you still have the option to worship him, as belief does not equal worship. But...If you believe in him, and, in the believing, believe the tenets of the bible (His document that has yet to be disproven)*, then wouldn't you, therefore, worship unless you were truly stupid? So, since you would worship him if he were to reveal his existance to you, that, in effect, does remove your free will. Elspode is of the opinion that Christians use the concepts of "redemption" and "forgiveness" to excuse hypocrisy and plain out "doing wrong". Some Christians do, but I don't think very much of them. IMO, that is just a bullshit hypocritical excuse, used by people who want to get away with stupid shit that they knew was wrong in the first place, and did anyway. I think that Good Christians(tm) use the most integral portion of the equation of forgiveness, and that is "repentance". Not the Catholic Version, but the Jesus version. I mean, you gotta be really sorry and WORK HARD on changing your habits and thoughts that are wrong (in the Christian sense), not just give lip service and say the cachisms over and over. I think it was in Peter it says you have to have REASONS for your faith, not just follow on blind faith.* [/Christian Hat] ***Instead of going into this here, please see www.answersingenesis.org, I'm not going to defend the bible here, they do it far better than I ever could.