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Sundae · 08-13-2011, 06:29 AM

I'm still very conflicted about the way I feel about this.
I've said before that I have a right-wing reactionary core beneath my liberal exterior, and shocks like this bring it out.
On the other hand I feel extremely concerned at the idea of people involved losing benefits and social housing, because how on earth are they going to survive?

I've heard points made to take people out of social housing - let them find housing in the private sector! They have proved they are no longer part of the community! Well, moving people on has never had great success. Look at the sink estates blamed for the "benefit culture" because none of them work and apparently you're seen as a mug by your neighbours if you do.

Moving them into the private sector just makes more money for private landlords, devalues other properties in the area and costs local authorities more.

Or again - don't turf them out, just stop their benefits.
WHAT? How will they pay for the all time record high utility bills?
How will they eat? As someone who has had their benefits screwed around with I can tell you it makes you feel desperate and outside of normal society, constantly borrowing and begging and asking for extensions and assistance. And I was living at home with my only dependent a cat!

I do see support and help as more important than punitive measures.
Let the courts deal with criminal complaints. Where people are found guilty, this is where the charges should be decided and applied. Nothing to do with housing and benefits.

I heard a man explaining the issues these youths were facing and yes, it did ring a bell. Children born to girls of 14, 15. Never had a father figure. Children brought up by children who did not have a work ethic, who did not have a sense of family, who had never learned respect for education. The boys get taller than their Mums at 13-14 and from there on have no reason to listen to them, respect them, pay attention to anything they say. Not a cause for rioting, but it works fairly well as an explanation of the mindset of these people and why they step outside what we see as society's basic rules.

But then on the other hand I heard a woman from Ghana on the radio. Woooo-eeee she was livid. She was like all the Ghanian and Nigerian women I met in South London. I came from a country with NO free education, NO free healthcare, where you had to FIGHT every day to work! Britiain gives out too much, it lets kids get away with this, there should be more laws, more police, more control! This doesn't happen in Ghana because your mother would slap you silly. You GO to school, you DO your homework or your Grandma will kill you etc etc.

I'm not blaming immigrants for the riots at all, but I do wonder if in some cases the children of immigrants are equally disenfranchised by the attitudes of their parents compared to the laissez faire attitudes of their schoolfriends' parents. It might be an additional point to consider, that alongside those with no guidance, there are some that are trying to escape theirs.

08-13-2011, 06:29 AM	#105
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	I'm still very conflicted about the way I feel about this. I've said before that I have a right-wing reactionary core beneath my liberal exterior, and shocks like this bring it out. On the other hand I feel extremely concerned at the idea of people involved losing benefits and social housing, because how on earth are they going to survive? I've heard points made to take people out of social housing - let them find housing in the private sector! They have proved they are no longer part of the community! Well, moving people on has never had great success. Look at the sink estates blamed for the "benefit culture" because none of them work and apparently you're seen as a mug by your neighbours if you do. Moving them into the private sector just makes more money for private landlords, devalues other properties in the area and costs local authorities more. Or again - don't turf them out, just stop their benefits. WHAT? How will they pay for the all time record high utility bills? How will they eat? As someone who has had their benefits screwed around with I can tell you it makes you feel desperate and outside of normal society, constantly borrowing and begging and asking for extensions and assistance. And I was living at home with my only dependent a cat! I do see support and help as more important than punitive measures. Let the courts deal with criminal complaints. Where people are found guilty, this is where the charges should be decided and applied. Nothing to do with housing and benefits. I heard a man explaining the issues these youths were facing and yes, it did ring a bell. Children born to girls of 14, 15. Never had a father figure. Children brought up by children who did not have a work ethic, who did not have a sense of family, who had never learned respect for education. The boys get taller than their Mums at 13-14 and from there on have no reason to listen to them, respect them, pay attention to anything they say. Not a cause for rioting, but it works fairly well as an explanation of the mindset of these people and why they step outside what we see as society's basic rules. But then on the other hand I heard a woman from Ghana on the radio. Woooo-eeee she was livid. She was like all the Ghanian and Nigerian women I met in South London. I came from a country with NO free education, NO free healthcare, where you had to FIGHT every day to work! Britiain gives out too much, it lets kids get away with this, there should be more laws, more police, more control! This doesn't happen in Ghana because your mother would slap you silly. You GO to school, you DO your homework or your Grandma will kill you etc etc. I'm not blaming immigrants for the riots at all, but I do wonder if in some cases the children of immigrants are equally disenfranchised by the attitudes of their parents compared to the laissez faire attitudes of their schoolfriends' parents. It might be an additional point to consider, that alongside those with no guidance, there are some that are trying to escape theirs.