[jaguar]

Since (in the response to lisa's comment tw continues to use agruements while refusing to respond to my rebuttles ill ignore those on the basis they are already null and void but...

Another does not understand why counterfeit IDs could not be used. The technology dates back to the earliest days of encryption. When ID A interfaces with the master system, both share an encrypted common number. When counterfeit ID B is used, then the common number does not match - rejection. If the criminal is resourceful, then ID A no longer matches the database number - the Identification protection system has kicked in.

An unhackable system? Intersting, i've never heard anyone claiming anyhting is truely unhackable, merely harder. If this is such a good point why not mention it some time instead of such a roundabout way of rebutitng it. It seems your more interested in preaching than debating on a logical and through level. If data, any data is stored on the card and the card is checked ona machine modified to copy the data off the card (as is often does with CCs) i fail to see how the card is still secure.

Part of my problem - I assumed this was obvious. But then I also assume the rudimetary concepts of PGP are fully understood by all here. That assumption apparently also may not be correct.

Patronising again, aiaiai.

A silly fear that law enforcement might not get a court order or your permission to access National ID information. So what. Nothing exists in that database that threatens anyone's privacy. But if you are so criminal as to fear law enforcement - then don't use the system. You have that option. No problem.

This one iv'e covered before but this variant of its goes further so ill cover again. Considering what will be on the card or in the database behind it a "silly fear" this is not, i'd consider all my personal details, movement records, DNA? Fingerprint? Retina scan? and who knwos what else personal data, particulary records about my movements, purchases, etc extremely personal. If i was to stalk you it would be an invasion of privicy surely? This is the smae thing, the only difference is its remote. And the records permanant.

As for the scary "waht woudl you ever want to do in private" and "only criminals who have somehting to hide want privicy" i find truely scary, tw seems to have inadvertintly decided to live in a Brave New World indeed. For anyone who has not read the book it really is up there with 1984. Optional? How optional? Either you are relying on legalese or are making large assumptions with no factual base.

The fear of law enforcement illegally accessing data in a National ID system is the same as a fear of law enforcement accessing the data in any local system - identification, credit card, driver's license, IRS, court records, telephone, Social Security, SMTP and POP3, etc. Those other databases contain massively more information that is a threat to your privacy and are not designed to be as secure.

Most of which require warrants which the national ID you've decided will not. Together they contain more infomation, but they are distrubuted all voer the place to differnet authorities some of which will allow that data to be removed anyway.

If you are an extremist, then fear a National ID system because extremists must deny others access to anything that extremists fear. Extremists fear to let anyone else use a system that they would fear to use. Straw man: fear of anything that you don't have to use.

Or on the flipside - If you don't agree with us completely and entirely, you are an extremist, if you want your privicy you are some kind of extremeist, if you arne't liek us you are a terrorist and must be destoryed.

If you fear a National ID system, then do not use; absolutely stay away from the Internet.

I spose you have a point. If you disregarded proxies, firewalls, ip spoofers, temporoay webmail accounts, e-mail encryption and public access points.

Just another example of how too many fear innovation (the anti-innovtive also still use the long obsoleted Windows 9x/ME and FATxx disk filesystems).

Irrelavent as it is many sitl luse 98 beacuse well...I'ts better for games. And i keep my 2k partitiona fat because NTFS is harder to recover if something goes wrong. Seems to run slower too.

The question raises its ugly heard - will i actualy get a response or will i get the same silence of someone sitting up on high.

Barak - all interesting, legal action? Its that legally possible anyway? As for seeming to bait people myself i'm merely trying to raise a reply to rebuttles i put up, instead i jsut hear the smae agruements again. Least maggieL responds =)