Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla
Actually, if there is any BS to be found in the neocon approach to foreign policy, this has never come to the attention of anyone trying to actually execute it.
No one's ever been able to demonstrate that it's a "failed policy," either. They merely allege that it must be one, and solely because they disagree with it. How's that again?? It's the antidemocracy Left that's doing the grousing! Don't mistake rationalization for wise thought!
"More than I would like," quotha. How about democracy fucking winning and undemocracy fucking going extinct? Ever thought about that one?? I'll answer for you: you, Spexx, have never once thought in those terms, or evidence of it would appear as much in your posts as it does in mine.
If I'm wrong, show proof. Otherwise, amigo, the ash heap of history is out through the back door.
And pacifists -- they do have an incredible weakness in their philosophy which causes me to reject it as a way of life: pacifism does not help you stay alive in trouble. No other philosophy has that handicap. Under lethal attack, either the pacifist must die, or the pacifism must be abandoned. Either the pacifist or the pacifism must die then. Pacifism, it seems, sets human life at a higher value than human goodness. It doesn't take very much thought to see the weaknesses in this concept -- sociopaths have very little good in them, and the more pronounced the sociopathy the less the decency. Are such monsters to be kept in anything but a cage or the grave? Not on your tintype.
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UG...I (and others) demonstrated the failures in other threads and you ran away without responding. And you still haven't responded here..just more of the same "anti-left" rhetoric.
And once again, you ignored the facts (reversals of policy with greater respect for the law) that I noted above.
As to the broader neo-con policy issues, I will rerun the proof for you.
The failures of Reagan's illegal Iran/Contra fiasco (10 administration officials served jail time) and subsquent Bush (both) policies of supporting right wing thug "democracies" in the region ....the long term result of which was a growth in anti-American sentiment that resulted in the election of the same person that Reagan "defeated" and a stronger South/Central America and Caribbean (ALBA) alliance (Nicaragua, Venezuela, Bolivia, Dominica and, most recently, Honduras and to a lesser extent, Ecuador, Paraguay, Grenada, Belize....) with Cuba than the US.
The failures of the Reagan/GHW Bush policy to arm both Iran and Iraq. Please tell me what that accomplished?
And the invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation by G Bush. While it is too soon to know the long-term outcome, I will grant you that Iraq now has a democratically elected government. I prefer that democracy result from the will of the people, rather than the invasion and occupation of a foreign power.
The cost of the war against a country that posed no direct threat to the US, and leaving aside the $1 trillion and 4,000+ US lives and an estimated 100,000 Iraqi civilian lives:
- the US invasion/occupation serving as a "cause celebre" (according to NIEs) for terrorist organizations around the world.
- the displacement of more than 4 million Iraqis from their homes, characterized by the UN as the worst refugee crisis in the Middle East in 40 years and resulting in more than an estimated 2 million Iraqis, many the former middle class, still living in refugee camps or slums in Syria, Jordan, etc. and afraid to return home or have no home to return to.
- the enhanced influence of Iran in Iraqi internal politics and thus greater influence on the politics of the region, with Iraq no longer serving as a buffer against the influence of the Iranian theocracy pulling the strings .
Added:
As to the "anti-democracy" left, I only speak for myself and as I said, I prefer democracies "of the people and by the people" and not imposed by force of invasion/occupation of a sovereign nation that posed no threat to the US, the unintended consequences of which are not always the cheery outcome you and the neo-cons suggest.