[henry quirk]

you claim this: '(henry) see(s) us all as ants or drones with no free will and no value'

this is my refutation...

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Post 87:

"we are the scum of the earth"

speak for yourself, and only for yourself

i applaud, as you say, you speaking your mind 'as honestly as possible'

this is a good thing

i too simply speak my mind as honestly as possible

so: when i say you are as hobbled, reactionary, and stupefied as those you decry, you'll take my comment within the context of this thread, and my previous comments in this thread...that is: as an honest expression of opinion

all this...

"we kill, torture or imprison all life, including our own.
it is, without doubt, our nature to do so.
we do so for greed, sport.
we have no respect for any life on this planet, including our own.
face it, we are the scum of the earth"

...which seems to be a summation of your view, is nothing less or more than mickey mouse, high school, pedestrian, bullshit

whip, are you presently torturing or imprisoning anyone?

whip, are you currently tortured or imprisoned by anyone?

whip, are you wholly without respect for any-one or -thing?

whip, if YOU are not tortured, imprisoned, or, are not torturing or imprisoning anyone, then your little coggish diatribe is meaningless

whip, if YOU can muster even one little erg of respect for some-one or -thing, then your little coggish display is for shit.

sure: lots of folks 'kill, torture or imprison' for all kinds of reasons, but not ALL of us do

living is way more colorful and complex than you seem to think

of course: as i said before, you can do as you like with your life, time, and resources...if this means wallowing in a teen's nihilism, then get to it

again: i decline to participate... --henry

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Post 88:

what i find most deplorable about the simplicities of folks like whip: such simplicities are based on generalizations of behavior, medians of behavior, which tend toward fictionalizations of behavior, which tend toward ignoring the extraordinary in favor of the ordinary

that is: even if 99 assholes shit on the floor, it's criminal to ignore the 1 person who uses the toilet

*shrug*

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post 98:

"we determine the nature of the wolf by observing the wolf. the actions of the wolf determine the wolf's nature."

so, in your view: the wolf (a kind of bio-automaton…determined and generic) is the equivalent of a self-aware, self-determining, unique, human individual

if this is the foundation of your thinking, then it's no wonder you're on the wrong track


"we are the crudest thing on this planet."

if you judge humanity by the single measure of 'we've always killed, we will always kill', then we're not better or worse than any other animal

i prefer to judge humanity by the actions of the individuals who comprise humanity, and i prefer to judge humanity not only by way of the profane but also the holy

you, my dear whip, are a cog (a knucklehead mcspazatron)...does this mean all humans are cogs?

of course not: only the willfully blind, stupid, and simple are cogs

*shrug*

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Post 101:

quirky, you're going to argue on the value of human life?"

no

i'm arguing the value of the human individual, the single one, the idiosyncrat, the philosophical ego


"well lets see what humans have done on this planet vs all other life"

a pointless comparison: no other animal on this benighted globe, no matter how extraordinary it may be, does what any average human does or can do

find me a non-human to debate with and your view will hold water more cleanly

'till you can find me a non-human debate partner: your position, as stated, is simplistic, one-dimensional, pedestrian, and unoriginal

the fact that we -- you and me -- can have this back 'n forth dickering says an awful lot about the capacities and capabilities of the human individual, as individual, and in alignment with other individuals

koko ain't got nuthin' on me (or you, for that matter)


"humans have poisoned the waters."

and all manner of life still thrives in ocean, sea, and river


"we've poluted the air."

still seems breathable to me and to most of the life i spy 'round me


"we've raped the earth."

oh please: there's not a one of us with a cock big enough to accomplish that!

so (melo)dramatic of you, whip...


"where is our will to survive?"

i can't, and won't speak, for the fictional 'will' of the fictional 'collective'

however: speaking for myself, i intend on lingering 'round for another 40 years or so

you?


"we're taking all other life with us"

so what?

yeah: we kill things, we eat things, we waste things....so what?


"what makes you so proud to be human?"

not a question of pride in the species...the species i'm a party to is incidental...i do, however, take a great deal of pleasure in being 'me'

does that count for anything?


"you see yourself as superior to all other life"

certainly seems that way to me

i eat cows, pigs, chickens, sheep, deer, etc

some of these i kill myself...some i buy from the market...in either case: 'i' eat 'them', not the other way around

i certainly see myself as superior to YOU...your head is full of coggish bullshit, your eyes dimmed by (dead) rose-color


"your actions prove the opposite"

so: what actions are those?


"you're in prison, and you call yourself free"

nope...i say i self-possess; 'freedom' has nothing to do with anything


"i see humanity as being at a pre-infant state."

i see 'humanity' (mostly comprised of wingnuts) as obstacle


"now you can point all you want bird fetus gobbler, but you're only pointing at yourself"

in my experience: self-loathing is foundational for cogs like you

as the magic jew said: go pull the fucking log outta yer own eye, then you can tell yer neighbor about the splinter in his... –henry

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post 105:

Henry, the views you espouse regarding human superiority make me feel sick.

(((good)))

(((the truth hurts...it should hurt...it should make you sick)))

(((the notion that you -- a single human individual -- have more value than all the chickens, cows, pigs, deer, geese, etc. put together should scare the bejeezus out of you)))

(((being a human individual is an awe-full responsibility)))

(((that so many abdicate that responsibility by way of adopting bullshit, namby-pamby, hippyisms, or by way of consistent poor choices, is a fucking shame...but -- really -- not my god damned problem)))

(((so: abcde, as i told the whip, you should feel absolutely free to discharge yourself on whatever foolishness you like...if elevating mere animals to the status of human is your bag, then have at it)))

(((if denigrating yourself, making yourself 'mere animal', is your thing, then -- again -- have at it)))

(((i'm very tolerant of all manner of insanities and inanities...i simply refuse to participate in them)))


...your complete disregard for all other life seems to support WHIP's view on human nature far more that it supports your own.

(((i don't disregard 'all other life'...i simply put 'all other life' into its proper place in the great, natural, hierarchy)))

(((again: find me a non-human debate partner and i'll be glad to reassess the circumstance and adjust my view...)))

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Post 140:

dearest whip:

when you write, 'we are the scum of the earth' you most certainly ARE attempting to speak for all

you make an assessment, you state it as though it were fact, you show offense when refutation is offered

again: if you wish to self-assess as 'scum', feel free

i have no reason at this point to disagree with that self-assessment

my only complaint is the certainty with which you generalize that self-assessment to everyone else

in my experience: there are many who are most surely not 'scum'...so: your universal assessment is in error, is refuted, and you, sir/madam, stand corrected

now: go to your room... –henry

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post 170:

"we are fleas on this planet"

when i say 'fleas' i mean in scale, not in value

the pedestrian musings of the whip and the sugarpop are, i think, value-statements i disagree with

to be a flea in scale still allows for nobility and greatness

to be 'scum' or a 'virus' in essence, in nature, allows only for stasis and parasitism

*shrug*

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Post 171:

"if joe is an enemy of mine (he killed my nephew, fucked my wife, ate my dog, etc.), and i hurt joe, 'harm' him, by stealing from him, this is a concern for me, how?"

this raises, of course, the bullshit argument of: well you reap what you so, mr quirk

if joe 'hurts' you then why are you complaining?

he just doing what 'you' do, isn't he?

yes he is...and if he does it to 'you', unless 'you' have some value to 'me', i could not care less

since however, i am everything to myself: i tend to take a dim view of being treated as resource, though -- certainly -- if suits my cause, i will use joe as resource

and since there is a small number of folks who 'matter' to me: i take also take a dim view of joe using any one of them as resource

morality, ethics, decency, justice, equality, and on and on are the sometimes useful fictions used to allow for a semblance of 'peace'

these fictions are tools used to craft another, sometimes useful, fiction: civilization

sure as shit: the next major catastrophe that slams into the world will illustrate how thin the veneer is on civilization and how angel farty 'morality, ethics, decency, justice, equality, and on and on' are

this, of course, is deplorable and you all should shun me, avert your eyes, write letters to the local papers, and report me to the net police...

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done and done... --henry