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Originally Posted by Undertoad
No no, don't just gloss over that one because it hurts your approach. Think on a straight line here. We proved it by his own words. You now know that he was. This is an important data point.
That's a common notion, what is your proof of it?
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The fact that al qaeda has been able to recruit more people than they would have otherwise. That is pretty much agreed upon by most people. Our govt may not have been liked very well before the Iraq war in certain parts of the Middle East, but our credibility in most parts of the ME has since tanked with a majority of the people over there. That isn't saying the people hate us as a people, but they hate our govt's politics with regard to them. We have been meddling in the affairs of Middle Eastern countries for a hundred years. They don't like it. Now we have waged a war against a country that did not attack us. We have used torture and humiliation against their people, many of whom were not really terrorists. We have held people for years, with no access to legal representation or a trial. Those things have done more to help al qaeda than Osama bin Laden could have dreamed of doing on his own.
Can you honestly say that you would not feel hate for another country if they did those things to you or your country?
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Then where are the Bosnian terrorists we created?
Where are the Panamanian terrorists we created?
Where are the Grenadan terrorists we created?
Where in holy hell are the Vietnamese terrorists we created? There had better be 500,000 of them, or your narrative is crashing and burning badly.
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I wasn't talking about those groups of people. Those situations are very different from the one we are in now. You cannot compare them, it's like comparing apples and oranges.