[jaguar]

You can quote Oscar Wilde all you want, but it doesn't make you an intellect. "Patriotism is a virtue of the viscious." No. Blind patriotism is a virtue of the ignorant and/or inept. Those that follow their government, think they have a great country DESPITE ITS MANY FLAWS and STILL think that maybe the government should uphold its primary function, that being the PROTECTION OF ITS CITIZENS, could very well be considered patriots. If that's the case, then I am one. But calling patriots blind or evil is a statement wholly based on ignorance. From your comments, one could deduce that you never bothered to seek out whether some patriots are informed. You sling around gross generalizations like they're fact. I recall saying they were "generally misinformed" - you made no such concession, instead accusing all that fall under your vast, pre-defined umbrella of being "sheep", based on no tangible or credible evidence.

I think is roughly what juju is trying to say.

Three is a fine line between arguing, debating and trolling. Sometimes I substitute the word argue for debate myself.

ohh I got special mention, care to tell which debate I was talking out my arse in? =)

Patriotism is dhamsaic is saying is all good but it is so often used as a tool but often anti-patriotic force as that cartoon is trying to say. I’d consider Ashcroft as lowly as Bin Laden now if I was a 'patriot' because he is really probably doing more dammage to the constitution than bin laden ever will, although you could blame him on the basis one is the result of the other, in which case the anti-terrorism bill is just because the US gov is just stupid, which as not as bad as trying to use a time of danger to screw its citizens.

waiting ALMOST A MONTH after the attacks, and THEN, after giving the government that harbors the terrorists A NUMBER OF CHANCES TO HAND OVER KNOWN TERRORIST OPERATIVES AND THEIR LEADERS, striking MILITARY TARGETS so we could send in a TARGETED GROUND CAMPAIGN to capture TERRORISTS while inflicting MINIMAL DAMAGE OTHERWISE.

History will judge the US's actions on what they do when they capture Bin Laden. A 'trial' in the US would be a farce as much as the show trials in Russia earlier last centaury, in reality he should be tried in The Hague; it was designed for this kind of thing. The Taliban offered to hand bin laden over for a trial in a neutral country, the US told them to piss off and kept bombing. While it was most probably just a smokescreen to stop the bombing sure if the United States was truly interested in *JUSTICE* not *REVENGE* then they would look seriously at this offer and ask for a country such as Switzerland.


Sorry to weigh into someone else’s debate but I just can't keep my mouth shut today.

This whole "can't fight violence with violence" thing reminded me of something I read.

*sigh* Sure, but tthen you get pissed and punch them back again, net result: you both have broken noses, fanfuckingtastic. SO now you ahve two angry men which broken noses who are going o be pissed off at each other for a very long time. On the other hand if hte first bloke instead went ot the police and sued the guy for assult hes 10k richer and can afford plastic surgery to get an even better nose. (translation: surgical strike out bin laden, nothing else and mabye do something to alleviate the conditions that cause the problem in the first place) Read Issac Asimov's Foundation Trilliogy (don't read the second 3, they suck), please.