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Old 09-08-2008, 10:27 PM   #6
Flint
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 13,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by regular.joe View Post
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We are products of that universe. The electrons and particles that make up our very thoughts in our brains, the chemical stew that houses our memories and ideas. These processes can all be traced back to a beginning. That is the rub, because if this is the case, what we majestically call our free will is really just a process of the universe, brought about by a chemical catalyst.
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If we agree with every logical step leading to this conclusion, then how can we disagree with the conclusion???

If the only thing against an idea is that we don't like it, then there's nothing against it. A calculator doesn't tell me what I feel like 3,789 times 45,731 should be. The ATM machine doesn't tell me how much money I'd like to have in my account.

But you've thrown in an X factor. God will free us from this deterministic universe. How?

With a Universal Intelligence. I like that phrase.

I believe that God is a universal intelligence--that is, the sum total of all the organization of all the matter and energy that makes up everything.

Just like our computers appears to perform sophisticated tasks, that are really just many, many simple calculations happening very fast and in a super-organized fashion; just like our own bodies are collections of many, many cells and hosted microorganisms, working together to create the appearance and function of a single being; God is like that. But including EVERYTHING.

In this way of understanding, God is the sum total off all the deterministic, Newtonian interactions between particles, all the pre-determined, set in stone, can't be changed chemical reactions, all the non-magical things that are happening in a specific way that is simply too complicated for us to understand; and when you add it all up, there is an emergence, the creation of a massive pattern that acts like an intelligence. God is just...everything. And since everything behaves a certain way, you get a certain God.

Of course he appears supernatural to us; but all that really means is that he is way beyond what we can understand. That isn't really saying much, because we're pretty insignificant. It doesn't make him magic, and it doesn't give him magical properties or abilities. It just means he operates way beyond our ability to comprehend.

So, I'm not even sure God has a free will, but it sure as hell isn't necessary for us to have one. We wouldn't even know the difference if we did.
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There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio

Last edited by Flint; 09-08-2008 at 10:40 PM.
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