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hot_pastrami · 07-07-2003, 03:00 PM

Personally, I respect others' right to believe what they will in such matters, and I admire the convictions of those who are convinced of their version of truth. I am even happy and willing to engage in discussions on religion and related philosophies. I am only bothered when religious beliefs are dispensed as statements of fact. I am as troubled by someone's insistence that God is real and holy and true as they would be if I suggested that God was a snowballed product of over-active imaginations. That doesn't make it wrong for them to assert that God is real and that I will burn in hell for thinking otherwise, but it does mean that I will be as blunt with them. However, I do admire the way you've been expressing your beliefs, being generally respectful of the opposing view.

As for your chair analogy, I think it needs a little altering to include relevant circumstances. One places their faith in a chair when they sit down, yes, but that is a trivial decision. If they sit in the the Wrong Chair (WC), they get up, brush themselves off, and try again. The sitter can change his/her decision based on the additional useful information. Religion would have us believe that we make the choice, and that we are forever responsible for it.

So, put the two chairs above pits of lava. One chair is a wooden chair of straightforward design, with four legs, arms, a seat and a back. It looks sturdy, and feels stout when wiggled. The wood does not sound hollow when knocked upon, and the pieces do not seem to flex or crack when put under some pressure. One is able to observe and test it thoroughly before sitting and paying the consequences of his/her choice. The other chair is draped in cloth, obscuring all but the most general details. There is a long, very old note stuck to the chair, with many sections of the text smudged out, and others scratched out and rewritten, describing the nature of the chair, assuring the potential sitter that it is safe. You are not allowed to touch it or remove the drape before sitting.

I'd choose the chair I could see to be of sound construction, personally, since my very life is in its care. And that represents my belief system... I believe that which I have reason to believe, and suspend belief on anything else until I have reason to otherwise. This varies with the importance of the subject obviously, but generally I need more evidence of Truth than a old text of questionable origin, and a desire to believe it is true. I must observe, or be informed from a trusted source. But everyone's minds work differently.

07-07-2003, 03:00 PM	#50
hot_pastrami I am meaty Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 1,119	Personally, I respect others' right to believe what they will in such matters, and I admire the convictions of those who are convinced of their version of truth. I am even happy and willing to engage in discussions on religion and related philosophies. I am only bothered when religious beliefs are dispensed as statements of fact. I am as troubled by someone's insistence that God is real and holy and true as they would be if I suggested that God was a snowballed product of over-active imaginations. That doesn't make it wrong for them to assert that God is real and that I will burn in hell for thinking otherwise, but it does mean that I will be as blunt with them. However, I do admire the way you've been expressing your beliefs, being generally respectful of the opposing view. As for your chair analogy, I think it needs a little altering to include relevant circumstances. One places their faith in a chair when they sit down, yes, but that is a trivial decision. If they sit in the the Wrong Chair (WC), they get up, brush themselves off, and try again. The sitter can change his/her decision based on the additional useful information. Religion would have us believe that we make the choice, and that we are forever responsible for it. So, put the two chairs above pits of lava. One chair is a wooden chair of straightforward design, with four legs, arms, a seat and a back. It looks sturdy, and feels stout when wiggled. The wood does not sound hollow when knocked upon, and the pieces do not seem to flex or crack when put under some pressure. One is able to observe and test it thoroughly before sitting and paying the consequences of his/her choice. The other chair is draped in cloth, obscuring all but the most general details. There is a long, very old note stuck to the chair, with many sections of the text smudged out, and others scratched out and rewritten, describing the nature of the chair, assuring the potential sitter that it is safe. You are not allowed to touch it or remove the drape before sitting. I'd choose the chair I could see to be of sound construction, personally, since my very life is in its care. And that represents my belief system... I believe that which I have reason to believe, and suspend belief on anything else until I have reason to otherwise. This varies with the importance of the subject obviously, but generally I need more evidence of Truth than a old text of questionable origin, and a desire to believe it is true. I must observe, or be informed from a trusted source. But everyone's minds work differently. __________________ Hot Pastrami!