The Cellar - View Single Post

leif · 10-16-2001, 12:37 PM

tT?ay "alternative energy" I don't mean nuclear; I was more thinking along the lines of hydrogen fuel-cells or other modern/clean technologies. I'm no scientist; I just know what I've picked up on NPR, Slashdot, AlterNet.org, and the like, but it sounds to me like the technology is here and we just need to put it into widespread use.

whit:
C'mon dude, presenting people with someone to blame makes it truly easy to unify them, and make them fanatics ready to do his will.

Uh, are you talking about OBL giving his followers someone to blame? Because that same thing is happening in America! Within hours of the attack, his name was on all the news stations. Remember, there has still been zero conclusive evidence against him. He's said we deserved it, and that he's happy about the attack, but thats no surprise. He was probably happy after McVeigh's bombing too, and lots everyone from Jerry Falwell to ME has said we had it coming (though for somewhat different reasons...). I'm not saying he's an innocent guy (he's certainly guilty of SOME terrorist acts, or so I'm told), but I would just think with the "Intelligence" infrastructure we've got we could dig up just a smidgen of proof against the guy IN THIS TERRORIST ACT. And the fact that we can't do that makes me wonder if he's really the guy, or if we're just being given a enemy to direct our rage at.

Of course, now that we've spent hundreds of millions (billions yet?) bombing Afghanistan, and killed countless civilians (including UN aid workers), Curious George can't exactly pull out and say "yeah, the real guilty parties are actually over here. Sorry about all that!".

The Taliban has said repeatedly that they are willing the negotiate, if we can just show them some proof bin Laden was involved. We (supposedly) have the proof; why not just show it to them? "National Security Concerns". Well, little kids wearing rags are getting blown the fuck up because of our precious national security, and our national 'security' can't even keep people from getting Anthrax in the mail. Does the fact that americans would rather watch coverage of "America Strikes Back" than "America Peacefully Negotiates" have anything to do with it?

whit:
And yeah the US throws its weight around ALOT in that region. But that's life.
So people can get real angry and crash airplanes into us, and "thats life" too? Because us "throwing our weight around" and them crashing planes into shit are sorta inter-related issues. You can't just brush it off; bombing the fuck out of some kids in the desert isn't gonna stop terrorists. Even if we killed off all the known terrorists, new people would follow them. We need to look at WHY there are millions of people who think the U.S. is evil, and that all Americans are scum.

Are YOU and ME benefiting from an economy that relies on their oil? If we started using (readily available) other energy sources, would it hurt us that much? President Bush's family is certainly benefiting. They've got a lot of money in the oil industry. I'd be just as happy with my car being powered by hydrogen. We could've started moving to cleaner energy years ago, but because our leaders have bussiness interests elsewhere we're now at "war".

I'd continue but I'm at work...
(this "new war" has really cut in on the workplace-productivity; I've probably spent more time reading+posting on various boards in the last month than the previous year combined!)

10-16-2001, 12:37 PM	#8
leif Confounded Conjuror Join Date: May 2001 Location: N. California Posts: 33	tT?ay "alternative energy" I don't mean nuclear; I was more thinking along the lines of hydrogen fuel-cells or other modern/clean technologies. I'm no scientist; I just know what I've picked up on NPR, Slashdot, AlterNet.org, and the like, but it sounds to me like the technology is here and we just need to put it into widespread use. whit: C'mon dude, presenting people with someone to blame makes it truly easy to unify them, and make them fanatics ready to do his will. Uh, are you talking about OBL giving his followers someone to blame? Because that same thing is happening in America! Within hours of the attack, his name was on all the news stations. Remember, there has still been zero conclusive evidence against him. He's said we deserved it, and that he's happy about the attack, but thats no surprise. He was probably happy after McVeigh's bombing too, and lots everyone from Jerry Falwell to ME has said we had it coming (though for somewhat different reasons...). I'm not saying he's an innocent guy (he's certainly guilty of SOME terrorist acts, or so I'm told), but I would just think with the "Intelligence" infrastructure we've got we could dig up just a smidgen of proof against the guy IN THIS TERRORIST ACT. And the fact that we can't do that makes me wonder if he's really the guy, or if we're just being given a enemy to direct our rage at. Of course, now that we've spent hundreds of millions (billions yet?) bombing Afghanistan, and killed countless civilians (including UN aid workers), Curious George can't exactly pull out and say "yeah, the real guilty parties are actually over here. Sorry about all that!". The Taliban has said repeatedly that they are willing the negotiate, if we can just show them some proof bin Laden was involved. We (supposedly) have the proof; why not just show it to them? "National Security Concerns". Well, little kids wearing rags are getting blown the fuck up because of our precious national security, and our national 'security' can't even keep people from getting Anthrax in the mail. Does the fact that americans would rather watch coverage of "America Strikes Back" than "America Peacefully Negotiates" have anything to do with it? whit: And yeah the US throws its weight around ALOT in that region. But that's life. So people can get real angry and crash airplanes into us, and "thats life" too? Because us "throwing our weight around" and them crashing planes into shit are sorta inter-related issues. You can't just brush it off; bombing the fuck out of some kids in the desert isn't gonna stop terrorists. Even if we killed off all the known terrorists, new people would follow them. We need to look at WHY there are millions of people who think the U.S. is evil, and that all Americans are scum. Are YOU and ME benefiting from an economy that relies on their oil? If we started using (readily available) other energy sources, would it hurt us that much? President Bush's family is certainly benefiting. They've got a lot of money in the oil industry. I'd be just as happy with my car being powered by hydrogen. We could've started moving to cleaner energy years ago, but because our leaders have bussiness interests elsewhere we're now at "war". I'd continue but I'm at work... (this "new war" has really cut in on the workplace-productivity; I've probably spent more time reading+posting on various boards in the last month than the previous year combined!)